How Conservatives Destroyed the Environment

[DanS]

Yeah, well Kyoto was already so badly hamstrung in its scope because of the efforts of the conservatives who in a number of cases STILL didn't sign up.

Who are those conservatives? As one example, in the US, the left was in power and negotiated Kyoto.

[Theben]

Such a social upheaval would ignite warfare across the globe. That would definitely affect the West when those countries decide to stop exporting what little food they'll have to attempt to prevent a full-scale revolution, or if we get involved militarily. Worst case, nukes start flying.

[Theben]

Based on the projected weakness of Solar Cycle 24, I imagine this thread is going to seem very quaint in five years...

And no one knows how that will last...

[Victor Galis]

Based on the projected weakness of Solar Cycle 24, I imagine this thread is going to seem very quaint in five years...

And very, very relevant in when that ends, eh?

The NW Passage opening up would be a boon to trade between Europe and Asia. I'm sure there are other possible positive effects, like longer growing seasons over large amounts of the Earth's surface in Northern Canada and Russia.

It's not going to do us much good unless we can enforce our control over it. It is one of the few areas where I liked the Conservatives better than the other parties.

Seeing as the climate is going to change itself, gradually, anyway, I still am not buying the Chicken Little routine.

But the change isn't gradual. Average change is gradual. You will see a gradual increase in severity and frequency of hurricanes. This won't matter until some big hurricane wipes out New Orleans... again.

[Dauphin]

I see big parallels between the Credit Crunch and environmental collapse, should it happen....

[Naked Gents Rut]

And very, very relevant in when that ends, eh?

No.

[Victor Galis]

I see big parallels between the Credit Crunch and environmental collapse, should it happen....

What, maximizing short-term gains at the expense of long-term pain biting us in the ***?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Who are those conservatives? As one example, in the US, the left was in power and negotiated Kyoto.

To folks like MOBIUS and che, the only non-conservatives in Congress/Presidency over the past 10 years are folks like Bernie Sanders and Paul Wellstone.

[notyoueither]

It's not going to do us much good unless we can enforce our control over it. It is one of the few areas where I liked the Conservatives better than the other parties.

I didn't point to the NW Passage as a boon to Canada.

I'm not sure we should try to control it when it is open, which is some number of months per year right now. Something about Law of the Sea and international convention on waterways.

[notyoueither]

To folks like MOBIUS and che, the only non-conservatives in Congress/Presidency over the past 10 years are folks like Bernie Sanders and Paul Wellstone.

To che they are most likely conservatives too.

The word sort of loses it's meaning in his vocabulary.

[Dauphin]

What, maximizing short-term gains at the expense of long-term pain biting us in the ***?

That, also i) any "successful" pre-emptive action can not be gauged, in which case the naysayers would just say that there was never a problem in the first place and ii) those who would get any government assistance (or bailouts in another parlance) could be those that were considered to cause the problem in the first place - "Big Oil" et al are probably the ones with the best infrastructure and know-how to switch us all to non-fossil fuels.

I make no comment on the likelihood or cost of such events though.

[MOBIUS]

Who are those conservatives? As one example, in the US, the left was in power and negotiated Kyoto.

To a European, Democrats are still conservatives...

[Darius871]

Based on the projected weakness of Solar Cycle 24, I imagine this thread is going to seem very quaint in five years...

No, if cooling occurs eco-folks will attribute it to "success" of their anti-greenhouse measures and push for more, while non-eco-folks will attribute it to some other cause. Nothing changes.

[Naked Gents Rut]

A couple of pieces that seem appropriate for this thread...

'Apocalyptic climate predictions' mislead the public, say experts

Experts at Britain's top climate research centre have launched a blistering attack on scientific colleagues and journalists who exaggerate the effects of global warming.

The Met Office Hadley Centre, one of the most prestigious research facilities in the world, says recent "apocalyptic predictions" about Arctic ice melt and soaring temperatures are as bad as claims that global warming does not exist. Such statements, however well-intentioned, distort the science and could undermine efforts to tackle carbon emissions, it says.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/feb/11/climate-change-misleading-claims

Dark Green Doomsayers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/13/AR2009021302514.html

[Theben]

LoL, Drake is now a fan of the Guardian.