Would you support this war?

[Pekka]

Let's say that the deficit and all this stuff goes even more red, and in this imaginary scenario the huge repo man comes and wants to collect some to pay for the huge interest, working on behalf of the creditors.

OK. So the price is, that everyone has to give up their iPods. No, you can't "have it a little while more", you have to give it now with all its content. Suppose people are so weirded out by this, that they actually give their iPods away, with some people causing ruckus but eventually couldn't do anything about it. But then, a week later, the repo man returns. The iPods weren't enough. Now we need the DVD players. But this is the final demand for this year.

Would you go to war?

[C0ckney]

as someone who doesn't own either an ipod or dvd player, i would be very unconcerned.

[Lorizael]

As long as iPod only means iPod and not my phone, and as long as dvd player doesn't include the one in my laptop, I wouldn't particularly care. And even if they did, err, repossess the dvd player in my laptop, most of the movies I watch are torrented anyway so that hardly matters either.

[Lorizael]

But if there is actually some huge repo man who comes along and takes people's stuff regardless of their financial situation, then **** no, I wouldn't go along with that.

[Pekka]

Well, it takes regardless, because the majority of people who spent the most (in advance) don't have the money to pay back. Only the ones who can afford a thousand iPods won't be that much affected. But of course the Repo man takes from every single individual, the same amount.

But there's a problem. If you fight the Repo man, you have to borrow money so you can afford to fight the war, and these would be the same people, your creditors. They decide not to loan any more money. Do you extend your fight against your creditors as well, as they threaten to liquidate their assets? Then you can fight it only by producing your own weaponry, and this includes not paying the full amount to the manufacturers. Special deals needs to be made. But then, before you know it, an alternate economy is created for trading goods and services. And then it's communism knocking at the door.

Me thinks we need to give up the iPods before the repo man comes.

[Lorizael]

I'll just borrow from France like my hero George Washington did.

[Pekka]

French

Nah, it's getting railed to the wrong direction. I am actually interested in what is it that would take a country to a war, when thinking about what they have. How little it takes in reality. You, me, the guy in Spain, whoever. I mean us, nations with wealth and who are used to certain luxuries.

[Unimatrix11]

One becomes part of a team, by contributing to it. If your nation´s takes from you, it will only tighten the bonds between you and your nation.

If another nation tries to take from your nation, your nation will take from you, so that the other nation can be fend off.

Another nation wont ever take anything from you directly, since it´s the very purpose of the nation to protect the property of its citizen. If such a thing happens, it´s a sure sign, that the nation you live in is not able to hold up its functions anymore (which include war).

Wars, despite the proof for an undesirability of nations of the modern fashion from a human point of view they gave in the 20th century, tend not to weaken nations, but the strengthen them. And with them the concept of nationality itself.

Yes, the capitalistic world is full of inconsistencies and paradoxons.


BTW, Pekka, in communism, ideally, there are no ´goods´ in the capitalistic sense. There are products, which are made with a purpose in mind, that has something to do with the product itself and not only the money that can be gained from it (which makes a ´product´ a ´good´). Communism is really not about an alternative way to trade things, but an alternative way to produce things - with a purpose and the question ´what for?´ in mind. Production in communism should not be a self-purpose, undertaken only to be able to produce even more the next day and taken as a value in itself, which in capitalism (including the state-capitalistic experiments of rapid modernization to exactly the self-purpose of increased production in the former USSR&Co) it only is, because it reaps profit for a few. The purpose of production in capitalism is the reproduction of the capital and thus ultimately production itself (that´s how ´labor´, no matter if lavished on the production of WMDs or the production of bread, became a universal positivum, and even the exclusive legitimation to existence - again: regardless of what it´s lavished on). The purpose of production in communism (ideally) is anything but.

Just another paradox irony, is that in capitalism they talk about ´rationalising´ everything, when the whole thing in itself is totally irrational.

[Dinner]

Viva La Revolution.

[Dr Strangelove]

I'll just pay my part off, but I'll gladly join your revolution. As the only "red" doctor in the area I could see myself riding with the partisans, just like Omar Shariff in "Doctor Zhivago". My one demand is that when we machine gun the attacking cadets from the local academy we have to spare my daughters boyfriend. He just needs re-education, that's all.

[Donegeal]

Let's say that the deficit and all this stuff goes even more red, and in this imaginary scenario the huge repo man comes and wants to collect some to pay for the huge interest, working on behalf of the creditors.

OK. So the price is, that everyone has to give up their iPods. No, you can't "have it a little while more", you have to give it now with all its content. Suppose people are so weirded out by this, that they actually give their iPods away, with some people causing ruckus but eventually couldn't do anything about it. But then, a week later, the repo man returns. The iPods weren't enough. Now we need the DVD players. But this is the final demand for this year.

Would you go to war?

Would I be willing to kill lots of people because I couldn't have my ipod or DVD player? No. That's just sick.

Another WTFP thread.

[Lorizael]

I have to admit that I have no idea what's going on in this thread.

[Pekka]

Done, come on, you're a cop, you kill people for free

Nah, you know that's a joke.

YOU SHALL NOT PASS! *waves iPod*... FROM THE DEPTHS OF THE UNDERWORLD, THE POWER OF DARKNESS WITH AN SS.... No, we are the Apple warriors of LIGHT! Proudly we will .. no wait. Who has an iPod or a mac for that matter? This isn't a reverse sting, I just want to know why it stinks so bad in here... Yeah, Apple is simple. Simply crap.

[Pekka]

In other words, I just saw the Macintosh documentary and it made me sick. I thought by now you would have all realized this. But since things have to be spelled out for some people, yes, it was a documentary having obnoxious people in it, with their inferior "technology", totally left wing cult man. I don't get it. It's like we're this cult of this huge company that makes millions and millions, because we are ... umm... against these corporations? It's not WTFP. It's WTFAM! (Apple Maniacs)

[duke o' york]

I wouldn't consider a fight against a giant repo man to be a war under any circumstances. Wars are for armies - this would only be a brief scuffle outside the house of whichever general loved his/her i-pod enough to call in their mates.