As the long national nightmare comes to an end...

[a.kitman]

Does anyone here want to actually challenge me on this, or are you guys going to continue to sic Fox News-watching idiots on me?

you obviously, like me, is no fan of the man. atleast recognize the man knew there where more compatent people on the case then he ever would be.

other then daily show fun clips i dont watch fox news. to get hang up on this is retarded. bush did nothing wrong here.

[Patroklos]

Hey, I'm in a leadership role where I'm at. It's no POTUS, but I do more than swab decks and parrot orders given to me from above.

That’s precious. Leave your inferiority complex out of this.

First, he should have went to a secure location.
Second, he should have been constantly briefed on what was known. Every minute he spent reading children's books in a photo op was a minute he lost in gathering information and absorbing the situation so he could action it sooner, later.

That would be why they were assembling his motorcade to get him to Air Force One. We are talking about nine minutes Asher, NINE MINUTES. You probably spend more time styling your hair in the morning.

And has been explained to you, THERE WAS NO INFORMATION. Even it there were, IT IS NOT THE PRESIDENT THAT WOULD BE GATHERING IT. Presidents are told information, and since the President was interrupted once to be given the only information available there is no basis to your assumption that he was not in a position to be told further information had it existed (which it didn't).

Leave it to a military man to ignore the fact that GATHERING INFORMATION is itself an action that could be taken. This is the key thing you do not understand.

One more time for you Asher: THERE WAS NOT INFORMATION! In the words of the National Security Advisor herself, "that’s all we know right now."

So please explain to us Asher what vital information Bush was supposed to gather in an elementary school in the Florida Keys that would be available there first instead of NORAD, the FAA or any of the other entities specifically tasked to gather such information. Was it buried in the sand box? Tucked away in a cubby hole? Hidden in a crayon box?

Most of my job is about gathering information. It's something that takes time to learn and digest, and yes, there was information at the time of the attack he could've been absorbing.

Name it. I gave you the timeline. Please provide us with this valuable information that the President could have known and then acted on in those 9 minutes. Keep in mind that the second plane didn't even hit until 9:03, and Bush was in a 9:14 conference call with Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, New York Governor George Pataki, and FBI Director Robert Mueller from a comm room prepped by the Secret Service (I mean really, taking 11 minutes to set up a comm room? Surely Asher could do better).

You are seriously whining about that kind of a reaction time for having one on one contact with the state governor, your national security advisor, vice, and the person in charge of domestic terrorism prevention?!?!?

I'm not stating he should've immediately bombed Mexico, I'm stating he should have done something other than read a childrens' book. He should've been enroute to a command centre, in this case Air Force One. He should've been being fed the latest information possible.

He was on his way to his command center, the motorcade was being assembled in the time in question. The Secret Service set up a dedicated comm room for the specific purpose you mention in just nine minutes. NINE MINUTES! So now that we have laid to rest any practical objections to his actions you are just pissed that he decided to not panic the civilians around him?

You're telling me they disassemble a motorcade while he makes a short visit to an elementary school?

Do you think they just move a couple dozen vehicles on a dime? Are you really *****ing about it taking a few minutes to get things together with the SS themselves didn't even know what was going on?

I just did.

You have yet to mention one thing that could have been accomplished that wasn't. Did you know the FAA didn't even shut down the NYC airports until 9:17?

[Patroklos]

Are you seriously, SERIOUSLY going to argue that it is Presidential to spend 10 ****ing minutes reading children's books after being informed, and I quote, "America is under attack"?

We have already established there was nothing he could have done, you seem to be bitter that Bush was smart enough to know that and you apparently aren't.

You're being an obtuse douche right now. I never said he should assemble most of his cabinet for a high level meeting in ten minutes. That's a strawman from a desperate man.

Its not a strawman, because I didn't substitute in place of your own retarded position. It is an example of what he DID do instead of whatever imaginary stuff you have yet to reveal to us that you wanted him to do instead.

What I am saying is 10 minutes in an event that is unfolding quickly and disastrously, after he had pointedly been told "America is under attack", is critical.

It is critical, and realizing he was devoid of information and in no position to contribute constuctively, he let his hand selected team of people do their jobs, one of which was to assemble five of the most relevant people at the time for a full discussion and information sharing in only 9 minutes. A great accomplishment for all involved.

Most of the world was better informed of the situation during that ten minutes while he continued a photo op.

How so, all they say was video of an plane hitting a building, which is exactly the same information that Bush had recieved verbally at virtually the same time.

The excuse that he didn't want to "alarm the children" is bull****, all he had to do was excuse himself. He was new to office and didn't know what to do. It was obvious. He was waiting for Rove to tell him what to do next. This isn't hard to decipher.

More accurately there wasn't anything to do, so he just filled the time calmly. I big win for him if you are not being an overcritical douchbag.

[Patroklos]

BTW, guess what Roosevelt did upon hearing about Pearl Harbor? He finished his lunch while waitng for information to come in via telephone calls. Or in other words, he did the exact same thing.

OMG WHY WASN'T HE GATHERING INFORMATION!!!

[rah]

Of course there are those that think that since we were goading them into action, that it really wasn't a surprise at all.

[Asher]

That’s precious. Leave your inferiority complex out of this.

This makes no sense, like most of your posting. You brought my profession into this, then you cite it as an inferiority complex when I respond to it. What?

That would be why they were assembling his motorcade to get him to Air Force One. We are talking about nine minutes Asher, NINE MINUTES. You probably spend more time styling your hair in the morning.

I buzz my hair, I spend precisely zero seconds styling my hair in the morning.

And has been explained to you, THERE WAS NO INFORMATION.

Are you ****ing stupid? There was lots of information. There were planes in the air not responding to calls from ATC at the same time. There was lots of potential information out there. There's zero value to continuing to read books under the guise that "there is no information", because any sliver of information or prep time he had would've been more beneficial to resolving the crisis than reading a childrens' books.

One more time for you Asher: THERE WAS NOT INFORMATION! In the words of the National Security Advisor herself, "that’s all we know right now."

You don't wait for information to come to you. Even if you're the President. You ask intelligent questions if you don't know anything else. If they don't know, you delegate and you send people out to gather the necessary information to make the decisions. In essence, a LEADER (which is what we are discussing) is not someone who sits on his ass reading childrens' books and waits for everyone to do all of the work while he just hears the results of after. A leader takes ownership of the situation, asks the right questions, and delegates to the right people. All of this can be done when there is "no information".

Nevermind that there was always information. Anyone who watched CNN knew more about the situation than Bush did during that time. That's not leadership.

Ignored the rest of your post as I need to get back to work and I'm sure there's no value in it. I'm going to go read childrens' books to my underlings and wait to hear back from you via PM on what's going on. It's what leaders do.

[Patroklos]

Yet another thread where Asher retreats with his tail between his legs. Its been awhile since you dared buck up to me boy, I missed teaching you these little life lessons

[MrFun]

I think Asher and Patty need to make up and sleep spoon style together.

[Asher]

I'm honestly stunned that people think reading childrens' books after being informed that the country is under attack is an example of good leadership. Even if there's nothing you can do, the optics are terrible. You need to look like you care and are doing something. It also helps not to look distressed while standing infront of children doing nothing.

Good leaders take charge and ask questions when nothing is known. Simple as that. May not make sense to a military man who just does what he's told and is not trained to ask questions, but in the real world, that's how it works.

The excuse "there's nothing he could have done" is bogus, also. Asking the right questions is something to do. Even watching CNN to see what the American people are seeing at the same time would've been something to do. He kept himself in a vacuum of knowledge except for the odd, filtered briefs his staff gave him occasionally. That's not good leadership. Period.

[a.kitman]

I think Asher and Patty need to make up and sleep spoon style together.

keep your dirty fantasys to yourself

[DinoDoc]

Why are you two continuing an arguement nearly a decade old about the actions of a man no longer in office? There's a reason Giuliani came out looking like a rockstar that day.

[Asher]

Why are you two continuing an arguement nearly a decade old about the actions of a man no longer in office? There's a reason Giuliani came out looking like a rockstar that day.

Because he wasn't passive. He was active. He was a leader at the time the city needed one.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

[a.kitman]

cant talk about the future whitout brining up the past

[Patroklos]

Good leaders take charge and ask questions when nothing is known. Simple as that. May not make sense to a military man who just does what he's told and is not trained to ask questions, but in the real world, that's how it works.

I realize you inferiority complex is crushing, but its just in your own head. Let it go

[rah]

If it was for a longer period of time, I'd have to agree with you. But it wasn't and by continuing what he was doing, there wasn't any panic. I think there's value in that.