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Fact: Nobody was tortured in Guantanamo

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  • Fact: Nobody was tortured in Guantanamo

    Guantanamo agents 'used torture'

    Mohammed al-Qahtani during a hearing in Yemen, 22 February 2006
    Mohammad al-Qahtani was a suspect in the first capital case at Guantanamo

    US agents at Guantanamo Bay tortured a Saudi man suspected of involvement in the 11 September attacks, the official overseeing trials at the camp has said.

    Susan Crawford told the Washington Post newspaper that Mohammad al-Qahtani had been left in a "life-threatening condition" after being interrogated.

    She said Mr Qahtani had been subjected to sustained periods of cold, isolation and sleep deprivation.

    Mr Qahtani remains at Guantanamo, but all charges against him were dropped.

    He had been facing trial on counts of conspiracy, terrorism, and murder in violation of the laws of war.

    'Overly aggressive'

    Although officials gave no reason for halting the prosecution in May 2008, Ms Crawford said in her interview that the decision had been taken because of the methods used by US agents.


    There's no doubt in my mind he would have been on one of those planes had he gained access to the country in August 2001
    Susan Crawford

    "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case," she said.

    Ms Crawford, who was appointed convening authority for military commissions in February 2007, said Mr Qahtani had been interrogated for 18 to 20 hours a day almost continuously for eight weeks.

    "The techniques they used were all authorised, but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent," she said.

    Ms Crawford said she was shocked, upset and embarrassed by the treatment he had received.

    She said: "If we tolerate this and allow it, then how can we object when our servicemen and women, or others in foreign service, are captured and subjected to the same techniques?

    "How can we complain? Where is our moral authority to complain? Well, we may have lost it."

    According to a report by Amnesty International, Mr Qahtani was at various times forced to wear women's clothes and was tied by a lead and forced to perform animal tricks.

    And the document, published last May, also contained allegations that dogs had been used on two occasions to "terrorise" the detainee.

    Obama's promise

    Mr Qahtani has been in detention at Guantanamo since 2002, after being picked up in Afghanistan.

    The US authorities had accused him of intending to take part in the 11 September attacks, and he was labelled the "20th hijacker".

    He had tried to travel to the US in August 2001, but had been refused entry.

    Despite her decision to drop the prosecution, Ms Crawford said Mr Qahtani remained a "very dangerous man".

    "There's no doubt in my mind he would have been on one of those planes had he gained access to the country in August 2001," she said.

    Earlier this week, advisers to president-elect Barack Obama confirmed he would issue an order for the closure of Guantanamo Bay within days of taking office.

    But no decision has yet been announced on the future of Mr Qahtani and other inmates who are deemed too dangerous to release, but may be impossible to prosecute.
    BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service
    Blah

  • #2
    What was done in Guantanamo were freedom inquiries, not torture.

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    • #3
      I think his surname is al-Qahtani and not Nobody
      Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
      GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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      • #4
        This is intolerable, but when you get to this point...

        She said: "If we tolerate this and allow it, then how can we object when our servicemen and women, or others in foreign service, are captured and subjected to the same techniques?
        I wasn't aware that the Taliban or AQ afforded our people anything more than a bullet through the brain.
        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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        • #5
          (\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
          (='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
          (")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)

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          • #6
            What on Earth does that have to do with this topic?
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #7
              I think Straybow is suggesting that americans can get tortured by people other than terrorists, and it is made more acceptable by our use of torture.
              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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              • #8
                If we're torturing people, then we are the terrorists. The word terrorist is beginning to be used to mean any enemy of the US and Israel.
                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                • #9
                  snoopy: That argument is tenuous. I can see instances where it might prove correct (break down of discipline at Abu Ghraib, if you believe that Abu Ghraib resulted from Guantanamo), but really we're talking more atmospherics than anything concrete.

                  Do we have any reason to believe that Belarus wouldn't have done this if 9/11 and the aftermath hadn't happened? These rules between states strike me as being well understood and long-standing.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                  • #10
                    I think it is the clearly defined reason for most of the rules of war, however (ie, the Geneva convention); we agree to not do these things, under the hope that it will cause our citizens to be treated the same way. Not out of any human rights concern (as the human rights issue is identical whether you are a British citizen or a member of Al Qaeda); just out of prevention of harm to our own.

                    If the world has lost some belief that we stick to this rule, then it is certainly logical to say that it is slightly more likely for our own citizens to be dealt with in such a matter. I hardly consider it tenuous.
                    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by snoopy369 View Post
                      I think it is the clearly defined reason for most of the rules of war, however (ie, the Geneva convention); we agree to not do these things, under the hope that it will cause our citizens to be treated the same way.
                      That's an interesting way to twist it. Rather, it is an explicit agreement (among signatories) such that we know that our citizens will be treated the same way. It's not something based on vague hope. If the other guy isn't following the convention, then by no means are you required to do so.

                      Edit: Indeed, you could make the argument that if the other guy isn't following the convention, you should not follow the convention, even if you are inclined to follow it for other reasons.
                      Last edited by DanS; January 14, 2009, 15:04.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                      • #12
                        Because the KGB never did anything like that at all anywhere in the world before Bush came to power?
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                        • #13
                          hang them high. Do it literally so Europeans see it. rub it in their faces. Physically. they are half people.

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