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  • The capacity for forgiveness.

    I just watched a documentary about Gettysburg this evening. It was a moving, thought-provoking presentation about not only the battle itself and its tremendous cost in casualties, but also how Lincoln wanted to ensure that the sacrifices would be properly memorialized.

    In that spirit, his speech included the principle that the United States needed to endure as a nation based on the idea that ALL men are created equal.

    But there was another part of this documentary that I remember. A free black woman happened to have been traveling through what was the battlefield of Gettysburg. She came across wounded soldiers. Here, she displayed a tremendous capacity for forgiveness; she provided comfort, water, and food to not only wounded Union soldiers, but also those who wore the gray uniform of the Confederacy. Upon seeing this part of the documentary, I was touched by this capacity for forgiveness and compassion.

    Do you have any recollections of remarkable capacity for forgiveness? In your personal life? Or as displayed by people in history?
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    I forgive Lincoln for costing millions of lives. Is that what you mean?
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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    • #3
      And we routinely forgive Sloww for being a Texan.

      I'd like to post something serious, but I'm afraid I can't think of any examples. Sorry.
      1011 1100
      Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Elok
        And we routinely forgive Sloww for being a Texan.
        The real problem is that we don't know if Sloww is a descendant of texans living back then or if he is just some immigrant
        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

        Steven Weinberg

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        • #5
          I have never forgiven what happened to me as a child. Abuse and too much of it.

          My family moved to the deep woods of Maine from southern Maine via Aroostook County. From 9 years old until it culminated at 13, I was physically and emotionally abused. Beaten,pissed on,torn clothes,split lips, testacles kicked, and then at 13 held down, beaten mercilessly while the crowd cheered on and as I was having my eyes closed by punches from 4 boys, kicked continously in ribs, which succomed and broke,and whole face on fire, one of them stood and backed up 6-8 feet, 2 held my face firmly locked forward and the boy full sprint, punted my 3 front teeth through my upper lip. It felt like fire, like a live wire had been shoved through the top of my head. I couldnt move, blood everywhere, the crowd silenced and the bullies left me with what would take , IIRC, 35 stitches in lips to close my face up. I think it took me 2 hours to get I still have nightmares on occassion, heck, im 49 so this was 36 years ago.

          I wish I had the capacity, have asked God to help me, and yet, I can see their faces, the ringleaders, and you know, its just not as easy as folks say.."Forgive them, but thats what i try to do. God knows the depth,bredth and width of my pain. My sweetheart, she continues to remind me to move forward. I do try, and when an occasion arises, say when i feel threatened, that memory is like a snap of I didnt have a so called normal childhood, you see, one has to go through abuse, true torment, to understand. You search your soul and blame yourself, you feel woefully inadequate, cant tell you how many nights i cried myself to sleep as a young boy.

          I do want to forgive them one is dead, 2 were in prison at one point and a coouple others who were involved are still back there.

          Thats why I get so insensed when I hear about abuse.

          So about forgiveness, it has to be hard, but one must seek to forgive those who robbed from you a piece of your life.

          I have a wonderful family and thank God for that. Many years I tried to cover my shame and pain with drugs and alchohol, my choice, better than living a nightmare, at the time. I was an alcoholi at 15 and drug abuser by 16.

          But now I seek to move forward each day.

          I pray and figure, we all have a burden of some sort, mine is this major one and ask God to please help me.

          I have never gotten counseling, i dont need a person telling me how to feel, I know i shouldnt carry this and dont need to have a college educated man over simpify a lost childhood, but it is what went on and now, you know how many grown people deal with a terrible attrocity for a lifetime.

          I dont ever want pity nor do i expect many to completely understand. I dont expect many lived with daily beatings, daily torment and sleepless night due to reoccuring nightmares.

          But one day my hope is I can truly forgive those that stole my life.

          Brother Bruce
          Hi, I'm RAH and I'm a Benaholic.-rah

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BlackCat


            The real problem is that we don't know if Sloww is a descendant of texans living back then or if he is just some immigrant
            Oh, I'm a descendent.



            Gramps, if you have an address of one of those nut munchers, I'll go take care of it. A little late, but better late than never.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SlowwHand


              Oh, I'm a descendent.
              Well, now we know that Sloww is a descendant of slaveowners and KKK members
              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

              Steven Weinberg

              Comment


              • #8
                GPT - there are a big difference between what happend 100 year ago an what you yourself has experienced. What you describes sucks seriously and you will remember it, but for the better, such should be forgotten in the future.
                With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                Steven Weinberg

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SlowwHand


                  Oh, I'm a descendent.



                  Gramps, if you have an address of one of those nut munchers, I'll go take care of it. A little late, but better late than never.
                  In my mind and heart, a hundred times over Sloww, I have done things they deserved and then, then they probably are too iggnorant of the magnitude of what transpired.

                  I lived with outlaw Bikers at age 16, the Sons of Satan, New Brunswick Canada, a Canadian affiliate of the Hells Angels.

                  I was friends with many of their very hardcore Bikers, they took me in and I joined under their wings.

                  I was offered, as a gift, upon my say so, to have them taken care of which I didnt want. even back then I knew it was wrong but would have certainly paid them back for the heinous attrocities.

                  But one thing kept me as an adult from doing unspeakable and even unthinkable deeds to them, it would not return my life.

                  People say when i fought, i did things people didnt deserve when we fought, but I reckon somehow, I was reliving the day of culmination of the act.

                  Even after i returned to school, no front teeth, the abuse continued.

                  we were poor and I often feel bad,as i did then of what my dad and Mom went through, knowing what i was going through, although perhaps they chose to think it may not have been that bad.

                  Thanks Sloww, I have allways counted you as one of the real men here who stand for whats right and whats not.

                  Your a good person and a good man and count you as a friend here.

                  Bruce
                  Hi, I'm RAH and I'm a Benaholic.-rah

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BlackCat
                    GPT - there are a big difference between what happend 100 year ago an what you yourself has experienced. What you describes sucks seriously and you will remember it, but for the better, such should be forgotten in the future.

                    Yes sir, I do trie hard to not relive it, honestly, amd hopefully one day will stop the reoccuring nightmares.

                    Bruce
                    Hi, I'm RAH and I'm a Benaholic.-rah

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I forgive you MF for your bleeding heart crap. A woman treats wounded soldiers at Gettysburg and you turn it into a PC soap-opera. Pathetic
                      We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                      If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                      Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SpencerH
                        I forgive you MF for your bleeding heart crap. A woman treats wounded soldiers at Gettysburg and you turn it into a PC soap-opera. Pathetic
                        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                        • #13
                          I wasn't the only one to appreciate that story of human compassion and forgiveness in that light. One of the speakers/historians in that documentary portrayed it also as a moving example of a person's capacity to forgive others.
                          A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                          • #14
                            Sorry for a personal story.

                            I forgave my best friend who turned my worst enemy and for a couple of years made my life really hard. Really, I wanted to commit suicide then and even tried drinking a couple of stuff wondering if they'd poison me or not, and I wanted to do it in another way but someone came. Much of my psychological problems come from this time. I am constantly afraid people, even good friends, will turn away from me and in result I often do not make social contacts because I prefer not having anything than having something for a while and then losing it.
                            And other stuff.

                            I was suprised how easy it was and I have a couple of thoughts. St Augustine said: "hate the sin, but love the sinner", that's one. Especially that he's not the same boy as then... No-one's the same after a decade. Secondly, it's harder to forgive yourself than to forgive someone else, but forgiving someone else makes it easier, and thirdly, perhaps being nice to someone who wronged You is sometimes the worst revenge. But truth is that forgiving him was easy, because I never really hated him and always hoped we would become friends again. He is a very bright and lively person and I always respected him. I knew him from kinder-creche onwards, he lived right next to me.

                            And he is the first and yet only boy I ever kissed at mouth, even though that was just a childrens' play.


                            Oh, and anyway, when we speak about forgivance, there's this poem / song:

                            1. Hanka Ordonowna -

                            "Love will forgive your everything"

                            Love will forgive you everything
                            She will turn your sadness into laughter
                            Love so nicely explains (excuses)
                            Betrayal, lie and sin
                            Even if you cursed her (love, that is) in despair
                            That she's cruel and evil
                            Love will forgive you everything
                            Because, my beloved, love is me

                            When you will love (someone) as strong as I (do)
                            So tenderly, so passionately, you know,
                            endlessly, madly, bottomlessly,
                            betray me, then, and sin

                            (because)

                            Love will forgive you everything
                            She will turn sadness into laughter for you
                            Love explains (excuses) so nicely
                            Betrayal, lie and sin
                            Even if you cursed her in despair
                            That she's cruel and evil
                            Love will forgive you everything
                            Because, my beloved, love is me

                            Even if you cursed her in despair
                            That she's cruel and evil
                            Love will forgive you everything
                            Because, my beloved, love is me

                            @@

                            Allegedly the words were written (aninomously) by Julian Tuwin, prince of polish poets, and personally one of my favourite poets.
                            They sound much better in polish.

                            "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                            I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                            Middle East!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Heresson
                              Sorry for a personal story.
                              Personal stories about the better angels of our nature are just as welcome in this thread as historical stories are.
                              A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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