GM Spirals the Drain (Part 2)

[notyoueither]

Look in the mirror, Dan.

You act as if the US government wasting $15 bln., maybe, is the end of the world.

[DanS]

It isn't $15 billion, NYE. It's committing to a course that will cost $125 billion. Even in these times, that ain't chump change. $400 per American (and Canadian transplant in Baltimore) or $1,100 per household.

[notyoueither]

I'm suspecting you are counting on them being in Chapter 11 before inauguration.

That would be a good thing.

I point out, again, Bush has not signed a cheque.

[DanS]

The Wall Street Journal's editorial on Bush's bailout.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122912631328803145.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Agreed, in toto.

[Dinner]

You know, Senate Republicans could fix this by changing their votes. The old deal isn't looking so bad now is it?

[Darius871]

Convenient that Bush didn't bother telling them of this intention until after they'd cast their votes...

[Dinner]

This is kind of tin foil hat stuff but it seems like that might have been the Republican plan all along. Vote no one the bailout to win favor with their base then avoid the economic fall out from two of the big three collapsing (and make no mistake bankruptcy would mean collapse as no one would buy cars from a bankrupt car company) by still bailing them out through the back door.

It would be a classic political move.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Oerdin
no one would buy cars from a bankrupt car company

Why do you keep repeating that over and over like it'll make it come true? I can get any part I could ever need for my car from multi-brand parts stores or salvage yards, and have them installed by any number of mom & pop mechanic's shops, have some savvy cousin install it, or install it myself. How the **** would bankruptcy's dismantling of even 50-80% of my car's manufacturer affect this?

If I were ever insane enough to buy a Chevy in the first place, the mere fact that they're being heavily downsized by Chapter 11 restructuring wouldn't change my decision in the slightest. I wouldn't get any parts or servicing from the ass-raping dealership even if they were perfectly solvent, so why would their not being solvent make any difference?

Oh, and I might note that the horrifying specter of bankruptcy restructuring didn't stop people from buying oodles of Daewoos and Kias. But let me guess, those weren't real bankruptcies, right?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS
It isn't $15 billion, NYE. It's committing to a course that will cost $125 billion. Even in these times, that ain't chump change. $400 per American (and Canadian transplant in Baltimore) or $1,100 per household.

Almost 2000$ from my household.



Though there is a good chance I won't actually have to pay for it...

[BlackCat]

Can anyone confirm if this really are the american way to ruin a company :

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River . Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses.

The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .

Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US . The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Almost 2000$ from my household.



Though there is a good chance I won't actually have to pay for it...

Unless the Canadian gov't actually does something so stupid as to come up with that cash.

****ing *******s.

[Dinner]

It was very interesting to hear Dick Cheney say if the auto industry is allowed to fail "it's Herbert Hoover time for the Republican Party". Also illuminating was a secret internal GOP memo detailing their plans to attempt to kill or critically wound the UAW for political reasons. Yes, they aren't making a principled stand but instead where making a political calculation designed to hurt their enemies.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Who cares? Opposing the bailout is the right decision.

[Chemical Ollie]

I heard someone say in a dinner discussion that the reason these companies are in the crapper is because American car workers get totally absurd salaries. But I forgot what the normal salary was, and I haven't found it anywhere else. Anyone knows?

In comparison, Swedish car workers get perhaps 50 k$ a year. German probably somewhat higher, I would guess 50 k€ a year. And those all belong to GM or Ford too.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
Who cares? Opposing the bailout is the right decision.

Like I said, it was likely their plan all along. Oppose the bailout in public to make their idiot followers happy but plan a back door bailout to avoid economic collapse in the upper midwest. Are you feeling used Drake? You should be.