Newt Gingrich: Let's End Adolescence

[onodera]

Originally posted by Arrian
I have to wonder whether Newt really means it when he says he wants to "engage young people in real life."

If you become an adult at 13 (or 15), whatever, what about age of consent laws and the like? How about alcohol, a legal drug (as opposed to those illegal drugs he seems so worried about)? Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd hazard a guess that Newt is just fine with keeping restrictions on all those things. But he sure wants those kids to get to work!
-Arrian

I think emancipating the youths at 13 is a terriffic idea. If they don't get any voting rights, of course. There was a draft I wrote about uniersal suffrage that I should post.

[rah]

I do have a concern that if you have more programs where kids are paid to do well, or guarenteed scholarships if they maintain specific grade point averages, that extra pressure might be put on the teacher to give out higher grades. It's bad enough when kids whine that if they don't get a certain grade from a teacher that their college carreer will be suposably ruined. Imagine now if it has concrete direct monetary value. That increases the risk of predatory practices by certain teachers or threats by certain students. As the direct value of grades increase the more dangerous it might become for both teachers and students. Right now a lot of the more dangerous students don't give a rat's ass about there grades. I wouldn't want to be their teacher if a monetary value is attached to them.

[Jon Miller]

Not based on grades, maybe, but based on standardized testing?

JM

[OzzyKP]

That's a very good point.

I agree, obviously, 100% with Newt's assessment of the problem and his general statements. But you're right, as far as his specific suggestions, they deserve a lot more examination.

[Asher]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
That's a very good point.

I agree, obviously, 100% with Newt's assessment of the problem and his general statements. But you're right, as far as his specific suggestions, they deserve a lot more examination.

In other words: "I like this article because it supports my opinion. He doesn't justify it well or provide any solutions that are viable or reasonable. "

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Asher


In other words: "I like this article because it supports my opinion. He doesn't justify it well or provide any solutions that are viable or reasonable. "

Ozzy would fall in line with a neo-Nazi if such a person was supportive of Ozzy's pet agenda.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Asher


In other words: "I like this article because it supports my opinion. He doesn't justify it well or provide any solutions that are viable or reasonable. "

In other words: "I don't have anything intelligent or meaningful to contribute to this thread, so I'll just post something snarky like usual."

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by MrFun


Ozzy would fall in line with a neo-Nazi if such a person was supportive of Ozzy's pet agenda.

1. Newt is hardly a neo-Nazi
2. I never indicated I supported his other policies/positions

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Asher
trolling

lol

[MrFun]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


1. Newt is hardly a neo-Nazi
2. I never indicated I supported his other policies/positions

I wasn't saying Newt Gingrich is a neo-Nazi.

But thanks for playng.

[RGBVideo]

Originally posted by Arrian
A lot of this boils down to parenting. I'm surprised Mr. Gingrich appears to be signing on to parenting by the state, but maybe he figures that we're already so far down that road he's got no choice.

n.l. gingrich has a special relationship to government funded education

(1) he's himself a history teacher
(2) he spent plenty of time ****ing his math teacher while he was still a teenager

[onodera]

Originally posted by VJ
(2) he spent plenty of time ****ing his math teacher while he was still a teenager

...N-nice

[Arrian]

I think emancipating the youths at 13 is a terriffic idea. If they don't get any voting rights, of course.

In Soviet Russia, votes right YOU. Or something like that.

I'm a lot less worried about 13 year olds voting than I am about them driving, drinking, serving in the army, marrying...

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by OzzyKP

Public schools ARE social engineering. A drinking age IS social engineering.

I know that. Really. That was, in fact, kinda my point. All this stuff is social engineering, and it has potentially big consequences. The risks (and indeed, the rewards) are high, so you better think things through. I'm not against making changes, but I'd like to see things done carefully. Hence my pointing out the lack of detail on Newt's part when it comes to rights & privileges.

Unless you think conservatives would be for eliminating all such laws, I think it is fair to say that social engineering is already taking place across the board and is universally supported by both sides.

Yeah, that's true. It's just that (it seems to me that) conservatives often try to avoid admitting that. Anyway, no argument with you here.

Newt sees that our current model of social engineering isn't working and is suggesting a better way of going about it.

Yes, and there are a couple of interesting ideas in there. I'm all for some trials, as I've said.

-Arrian

[Blaupanzer]

Mr. Gingrich characterizes adolescence as a failed experiment. But in the time before the problem arose, children were regarded as mini-adults. Thus, no age of consent, almost no limits on what drugs could be consumed, no age limit on marraige except parental objections -- which were, in turn, absolutely understood as final. No judge or preacher would let a girl/woman be married without a relative to "give her away."

Additionally, in that time there were no high schools or middle schools to speak of -- the substitute were "preparatory schools," very private and very expensive. The role of elementary education was to prepare the children for full participation in society -- readin', writin', and 'rithmetic. Children were pulled from school for work such as planting and harvesting, making repairs to damaged buildings --whether by fire or weather, and loading and hauling.

Then, nothing moved at greater than the speed a horse can run unless it traveled on a track, guns fired one bullet at a time, and almost everyone had regular access to at least one musket/rifle. Almost all non-farm jobs were tiered to a structure like Apprentice, Assistant, Journeyman, Master, none of which was taught in school. Lastly, every white person in America was assumed to be a Christian and could expect to be heavily harrassed if he didn't attend church. Non-whites were either slaves, savages, or Catholic (horror of horrors). I'm sure Newt thinks that was a better world, but frankly it sounds like Hell to me.

If we need to redefine the age of consent, drinking, military service, marraige, driving, full-time work, then let's have that discussion-- not based on an imaginary "what was," but on a decision as to what should be. The current education system is clearly producing substandard results. The system clearly lacks discipline both self- and external. The rewards and punishments are too abstract for the young and too obvious to the rest of us. But this situation came about not due to to a failed experiment but based on a lot of half-baked ideas on how to protect and shelter children, mostly introduced after WW II.