Newt Gingrich: Let's End Adolescence

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I agree with him.

JM

Something tells me he just wants to try 16 year olds as adults without making them full legal adults.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Arrian
Ozzy,

Regarding the payment for school thing, I was referring to this:



That's not paying kids to go to college instead of highschool. That's paying kids to go to highschool and try.

-Arrian

Yea, and he didn't come out and say he wanted to do that. Just an example of interesting programs along these lines. I believe NYC is doing this now too. I bet he'd take a wait & see approach to see if any positive results come from the programs.

[SlowwHand]

You want to pay school age to go to high school and try, but you also want to give them the entitlements of being mature.
I don't know, but that seems jacked up to me.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Something tells me he just wants to try 16 year olds as adults without making them full legal adults.

That's what we do now.

[SlowwHand]

No, we don't. That's why youth is recruited to do crimes. They aren't prosecuted as adults, generally.

[Dis]

they are in murder cases or other serious crimes.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by OzzyKP


Yea, and he didn't come out and say he wanted to do that. Just an example of interesting programs along these lines. I believe NYC is doing this now too. I bet he'd take a wait & see approach to see if any positive results come from the programs.

Fair enough. I think it's an interesting idea too.

I like the idea about giving kids money to go off to college/vocational school early too. Good stuff.

The rest... the vague bits about making 13 year olds into adults... that's what I'm wary of. He talks about giving them responsibilities. Ok, I get that he wants to put 'em to work. Fine. What else? Age of majority? Age of consent? Drinking age? Oh, and how about those terrible illegal drugs, Newt? While we're on the subject of personal responsibility and all...

-Arrian

[Dis]

not all responsibility involves work. It involves chores, looking after your siblings etc.

Do kids do chores anymore? I admit I didn't, I just happened to be a responsible person through sheer luck (or genetics ). And I'm not talking about cleaing their room which isn't real work, just general housekeeping. Stuff like cleaning the bathroom, doing dishes, and yes even cooking.

[MrFun]

Newt Gingrich is a bigoted, rabid right-wing monster.

[Jon Miller]

Financial indpendence is a crucial part of independence. And when you are focusing on going to school, you can't really be working much.

People are assumed to be able to place their goals so far ahead when they are in their teens/etc. They are expected to work towards a time when they are in their early 20s/early 30s. This is pretty unreasonable, especially people who don't have their parents driving them a certain way. If we payed them to succeed, then they would have reason to do well where they were, instead of for where they (might) be in 10 years (which is such a length of time that people of all ages have a hard time planning that far ahead).

I mean, it works for me (sorta) becuase I am a lot more goal focused tha most people. However, our general society isn't (see credit card debt/etc), and I acknowledge we can't expect our young to be so.

And I didn't see any focus on legal there, it seemed focus on financial and scholastic concerns, with a small reference to drugs.

And I don't see how the illegality of some drugs have anything to do with this discussion at all.

JM

[Dinner]

When did Dis come back?

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by MrFun
Newt Gingrich is a bigoted, rabid right-wing monster.

Sounds like you and Ozzy need to get together and get your story straight.

[Arrian]

A lot of this boils down to parenting. I'm surprised Mr. Gingrich appears to be signing on to parenting by the state, but maybe he figures that we're already so far down that road he's got no choice. Obviously there is a deficit of good parenting. Social engineering, though, is a difficult and potentially dangerous thing (as I'd expect a conservative to believe).

-Arrian

[Jon Miller]

True, but it is focused on the easiest social engineering of all to have: pure money. Doing social engineering to make it so that people want to look 10 years ahead is difficult and unclear what exactly will work.

Same with trying to get parents to be more active in their kids lives.

Paying the kids for education results (and requiring them to take responsibility) puts the crank on the kid and on something that works (finances).

JM

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Arrian
A lot of this boils down to parenting. I'm surprised Mr. Gingrich appears to be signing on to parenting by the state, but maybe he figures that we're already so far down that road he's got no choice. Obviously there is a deficit of good parenting. Social engineering, though, is a difficult and potentially dangerous thing (as I'd expect a conservative to believe).

-Arrian

Public schools ARE social engineering. A drinking age IS social engineering. Unless you think conservatives would be for eliminating all such laws, I think it is fair to say that social engineering is already taking place across the board and is universally supported by both sides.

Newt sees that our current model of social engineering isn't working and is suggesting a better way of going about it.