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  • #31
    Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut


    Not in the sense that they forced anybody, no. However, they did take away part of the privates' market and then increased the incentives for the privates to move into a riskier portion of the subprime market.
    They decreased the available mortgage market for private borrowers. They increased the total mortgage market. They increased the incentives for privates to issue a "good" mortgage at a given rate MORE than they increased the incentives for privates to issue a subprime mortgage at some other given rate!

    The returns for the privates in riskier subprime wouldn't have been nearly as enticing if they had been forced to hold the risk from those loans themselves.


    Again, they did decrease the absolute cost of borrowing for subprime. This is not in doubt.

    You're going to have to explain this whole "good borrowers vs. bad borrowers" thing in a different way. I'm not grasping the relevance.
    Toy model: 2 classes of borrowers. good borrowers and bad borrowers (G and B)

    Without GSEs: G pays r_G and B pays r_B
    With GSEs: G pays r_G' and B pays r_B'

    r_G' < r_G, r_B' < r_B, r_G' < r_B', r_G < r_B in any reasonable world

    GSEs show preference for G over B (whether due to regulatory requirements, company history or sheer laziness due to privileged position). We can see this because they capture more of G market than B market. This means that in some sort of measure (r_G' / r_G) < (r_B' / r_B) (ratio is not necessarily correct measure; would need to write down a model for preference of GSEs for G to get right measure).

    Now, since all borrowing rates lower with GSEs H' > H (housing prices). Amount of change depends on elasticities of supply and demand for housing, along with other, more nebulous quantities like increased confidence of homeowners in housing market due to GSEs.

    What is the effect of H' > H and r_G' < r_G, with condition like (r_G' / r_G) < (r_B' / r_B)? In this model, unambiguous. More quantity of housing goes to good borrowers. Without increased housing investment, effect on bad borrowers is also unambiguous. Less quantity of housing goes to them. What makes effect on bad borrowers ambiguous is increase in total quantity of housing from increase in housing investment. DId this increase more than increase of quantity which goes to good borrowers? If so, then increase in housing going to bad borrowers.
    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
    Ultima Ratio Regum

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    • #32
      They increased the incentives for privates to issue a "good" mortgage at a given rate MORE than they increased the incentives for privates to issue a subprime mortgage at some other given rate!
      You've lost me, dude. How does this matter when the privates can't issue "good" prime mortgages because the GSEs monopolize the market?

      They increased the total mortgage market.
      Isn't this the problem? We wouldn't be in this mess if the mortgage market hadn't expanded into subprime.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut


        You've lost me, dude. How does this matter when the privates can't issue "good" prime mortgages because the GSEs monopolize the market?
        The GSEs monopolized the "good" mortgage issuing market?

        That's ridiculous. They don't issue any mortgages at all.



        Isn't this the problem? We wouldn't be in this mess if the mortgage market hadn't expanded into subprime.
        How does what I said show that presence of GSEs increased the subprime mortgage market relative to counterfactual of no GSEs?

        The important point is that most of the increase in size of mortgage market goes straight into higher housing prices, not into housing investment.
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

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        • #34
          Krazy Horse is smarter than everyone.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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          • #35
            I don't know what you just said, but I'm certain it was idiotic. Go away.

            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

            Comment


            • #36
              That's ridiculous. They don't issue any mortgages at all.
              I know; the question was poorly stated on my part. I shouldn't discuss things like this when I'm tired...

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              • #37
                That's okay.

                Anyhow, I have office hours right now and should be correcting homeworks.

                A bunch of questions about fermi-dirac statistics at T > 0. This is going to suck.

                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                  I don't know what you just said, but I'm certain it was idiotic. Go away.

                  You're right. That's the stupidest thing I've ever said. I will leave in shame now.
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                  • #39
                    I will just point out that the so-called socialist countries in Europe like Denmark do not have state backed institutions backing mortgages, and it seems to work perfectly well.

                    So it is perfectly possible to have the mortgage-industry not owned by the state (or the private owners take the profit, the state takes the fall as in the US version of socialism).

                    But of course with the basic moved in the current crisis being falling house prices, now would be an idiotic time to cut the ties.
                    http://www.hardware-wiki.com - A wiki about computers, with focus on Linux support.

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                    • #40
                      I'm retracting my argument about the GSEs pushing the privates farther into subprime. Been reading and it turns out to be far more complex than I thought.

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                      • #41
                        Learning

                        If you find out anything interesting or can synthesize a new understanding into a simple model then I'd love to hear it.
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Learning
                          I really should be working on my paper for Friday...

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                          • #43
                            Sorry.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

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