Moving to the US after all?

[Pekka]

Just considering. To tell you the truth, I'm tired of making no money. It is a trade off, something I chose. But when it's done, I don't want to continue making minimum wage. With minimum wage, you aren't getting a house in here. Or an apartment. You can't even get a decent loan. I still live from pay cheque to pay cheque, sometimes not making my ends meet. I'm mostly happy, but my financial situation does bother me.

I was thinking of trying to become a professor in here, but I'm not sure if I want to do academia in this country after I graduate. I might go and have my own business, but we'll see. Or I might try to hook up with a consultancy company, but they're not really doign that great in here in the security field that I'm at (it's mostly in-house, equalling sucks). I'm in the field of IT security, and more spesifically security management. I do all management and I am an expert on issues such as security policies (creating, developing, assessing existing ones, compliance, etc.), budgeting, strategy and all that comes with the management field. Beyond what one might call a consult would do, much more sophisticated (as in much more common sense). Background in software engineering (bachelors) and masters in information systems. My grades are good/excellent.

I have work experience in few big companies, as well as supervisor experience. I have publications, and will have more soon. I will get my licentiate out next year and year after that, I'll have my PhD the latest. At that moment, I'm hoping to have at least 2 top journal publications and few top conference tickets.

The trick is, what then? I might be interested in becoming an associate professor for a Uni in the US. But all in all, I'd' like to make some money. What should I do? I am fed up with minimum wage. FED. UP.

[DanS]

What does a prof make in your field in Evil Finland?

[Pekka]

A bit better actually, but there's less business opportunities in here. I'd say starting from 60k a year, but definitely less than 100k no matter how good you are. This is full professor, associates makes nothing. Me? I make a bit over 20k a year. Yay. AFter taxes? Don't even ask. 15k? who knows. I can't even afford a loan, which is ridiculous, I work way too hard for thta little money.

The other prices do matter, for exampel houses in here are expensive. Houses start from about 250k upwards, but normally they're ... new houses, if youw ant to buy a new house, it'll be at least 300k. So, if you look at my salary, won't be happening. Also, with the high taxes, it'll still take decades to pay off your house, even if you make more than usual.

[Pekka]

DanS, here's where I'm at:
for example I saw a nice apartment that is normal price in here, for an apartment lke that: 3 rooms, bathroom, kitchen, your own balcony. Priced at 240k. Now, I used the "loan calculator" and it gave me 1340 euros per month. I have to pay 1340 euros per month, PLUS 200 euros for the building what ever thingie that you pay so they come and take care of the freaking building, so... even without that, that's a 30 year loan. OK?

After taxes, I get paid 1350 euros. See my problem?

THe reality of the situation is that even after my PhD, if I continue in the Uni, I'll get a nice bump but still make about 36k a year. OK? I'd have to become a full professor before I coudl ever knock on the door of 60k a year, which I dont' even think is very much money. It is a lot, but come on. What teh ****.

[Jon Miller]

Graduate students here also make ~20k. Professors also make here 60-100k. 100k number isn't likely unless you are at a good university.

JM

[Pekka]

JM, yeah... which is why I might want to keep myself aligned with the original plan and dump academia after my PhD.

[Jon Miller]

I think I would be happy with 60k a year, which is the high side for a post doc (low side for a professor).

JM

[Pekka]

Oh I'd be definitely happy with 60k, which is nowhere near a post doc in here can make unfortunately... less than 40k is the reality. Something I won't be happy with.

[Jon Miller]

Post docs here are 40-60k.

JM

[SlowwHand]

I think you should run a cat house.

[Japher]

Pekka, check your PMs

[OneFootInTheGrave]

after the incoming Euro house price crash, your house will be more affordable too

let the good times roll

[Pekka]

Yeah. It sucks, because the prices are coming down, and there's this oen particular apartment I've been looking into with my gf, it's perfect for us, and it is "cheap", meaning that its value will be a lot higher soon when the economy settles down again. Unfortunately the deals for loans are bad right now, so I can't get one. I would, even taking the risk of interest rates going wild for a while, because that place is at a price I consider stealing. It will be bought soon, and for the looks of it, not by us

At the moment, it's going for 240k, meaning that we can negotiate it down to 220k most likely. It's normal value is around 300k. So hells yeah we want it right now!! Actually, I wanted to go and sabotage the apartment showing on Sunday but forgot. We really hope it's up for grabs after few months, we really really really do hope this, but we don't think it's likely.

[Pekka]

Aside money, I don't think I'll be very satisfied with the future prospects of reasearch. Basically in the future I woudl have to teach more and more, and currently I'm starting to teach in 2 weeks (ouch) and I dont' think I want to spend my life teaching students about the basics of information systems. Seems extremely boring to me at this point. Research projects, they are where my interest lies in but come on, I'm fed up with the slow moving projects that never happen ro do happen, write a paper or two about them, it's not challenging enough. Sure, it can be difficult and complex, however, it's just not... I get most of it already, and I see the future in my own professors, they're just basically re-writing the same paper over and over again, using the data they have to the maximum. I don't feel like writing 10 papers on what was supposed to be one because it takes so much time to gather data. And even then, I have to ask the question of so what? We're not ... we're doing management, it's not like we're inventing new stuff. We're just researching ways to manage your stuff, what works best, based on scientific knowledge and research. It's cool, but it moves SLOWWWLY, and in the meanwhile you just teach anyway, the same courses you took few years ago, Blah blah meh, not interested.

Then you try to position yourself in the academic field as high as possible, yeah, you wrote few papers, good for you. You know? It's cool, but it's cool for now. I can see my motivation killed within a year or so. There's nothing new... I mean we just do theory testing or developing new ones and then test them. Interesting? Sure. But it's a very slow process, and most of the time it fails anyway due to bureaucracy or other stuff.

Simply put, it is an awesome experience, but for the long haul? No way. I want to do something else, something faster, that requires some skills and that pays for the effort as well.

[Dis]

U.S. suxs (except for Vegas) don't move here

You trade higher wages for more fat people, pollution, greed, and lack of ethics.