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  • New Hampshire and 16 year old college freshmen

    New Hampshire's proposed change in high school term

    By KATHLEEN KINGSBURY Kathleen Kingsbury – Fri Nov 7, 4:45 am ETHigh school sophomores should be ready for college by age 16. That's the message from New Hampshire education officials, who announced plans Oct. 30 for a new rigorous state board of exams to be given to 10th graders. Students who pass will be prepared to move on to the state's community or technical colleges, skipping the last two years of high school. (See pictures of teens and how they would vote.)


    Once implemented, the new battery of tests is expected to guarantee higher competency in core school subjects, lower dropout rates and free up millions of education dollars. Students may take the exams - which are modeled on existing AP or International Baccalaureate tests - as many times as they need to pass. Or those who want to go to a prestigious university may stay and finish the final two years, taking a second, more difficult set of exams senior year. "We want students who are ready to be able to move on to their higher education," says Lyonel Tracy, New Hampshire's Commissioner for Education. "And then we can focus even more attention on those kids who need more help to get there."


    But can less schooling really lead to better-prepared students at an earlier age? Outside of the U.S., it's actually a far less radical notion than it sounds. Dozens of industrialized countries expect students to be college-ready by age 16, and those teenagers consistently outperform their American peers on international standardized tests. (See pictures of the college dorm room's evolution.)


    With its new assessment system, New Hampshire is adopting a key recommendation of a blue-ribbon panel called the New Commission on Skills of the American Workforce. In 2006, the group issued a report called Tough Choices or Tough Times , a blueprint for how it believes the U.S. must dramatically overhaul education policies in order to maintain a globally competitive economy. "Forty years ago, the United States had the best educated workforce in the world," says William Brock, one of the commission's chairs and a former U.S. Secretary of Labor. "Now we're No. 10 and falling."


    As more and more jobs head overseas, Brock and others on the commission can't stress enough how dire the need is for educational reform. "The nation is running out of time," he says.


    New Hampshire's announcement comes as Utah and Massachusetts declared that they, too, plan to enact some of the commission's other proposals, such as universal Pre-K and better teacher pay and training. Still more states are expected to sign on in December. And the largest teacher union in the U.S., the National Education Association, is encouraging its affiliates to support such efforts.


    Some reform advocates would like to see the report's testing proposals replace current No Child Left Behind legislation. "It makes accountability much more meaningful by stressing critical thinking and true mastery," says Tracy.


    No date has been set for when New Hampshire will start administering the new set of exams, which have yet to be developed. But to achieve the goal of sending kids to college at 16, Tracy and his colleagues recognize preparation will have to start early. Nearly four years ago, New Hampshire began an initiative called Follow the Child. Starting practically from birth, educators are expected to chart children's educational progress year to year. In the future, this effort will be bolstered by formalized curricula that specify exactly what kids should know by the end of each grade level.


    That should help minimize the need for review year to year. It will also bring New Hampshire's education framework much closer to what occurs in many high-performing European and Asian nations. "It's about defining what lessons students should master and then teaching to those points," says Marc Tucker, co-chair of the commission and president of the National Center for Education and the Economy in Washington. "Kids at every level will be taking tough courses and working hard."


    Right now, Tucker argues, most American teenagers slide through high school, viewing it as a mandatory pit stop to hang out and socialize. Of those who do go to college, half attend community college. So Tucker's thinking is why not let them get started earlier? If that happened nationwide, he estimates the cost savings would add up to $60 billion a year. "All money that can be spent either on early childhood education or elsewhere," he says.


    Critics of cutting high school short, however, worry that proposals such as New Hampshire's could exacerbate existing socioeconomic gaps. One key concern is whether test results, at age 16, are really valid enough to indicate if a child should go to university or instead head to a technical school - with the latter almost certainly guaranteeing lower future earning potential. "You know that the kids sent in that direction are going to be from low-income, less-educated families while wealthy parents won't permit it," says Iris Rotberg, a George Washington University education policy professor, who notes similar results in Europe and Asia. She predicts, in turn, that disparity will mean "an even more polarized higher education structure - and ultimately society - than we already have."


    It's a charge that Tracy denies. "We're simply telling students it's okay to go at their own pace," he says. Especially if that pace is a little quicker than the status quo.
    What do people think of this? Bad idea or fabulous idea?
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
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    • #3
      Note that "college" is misleading here. They aren't going to real baccalaureate-granting institutions but instead technical or community colleges.
      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
      Stadtluft Macht Frei
      Killing it is the new killing it
      Ultima Ratio Regum

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      • #4
        If somebody wants to be a machinist or a plumber, say, then I have no idea why you would try to teach them calculus or otherwise have them mark time while they wait to graduate.

        There is far too much emphasis on college education compared to technical training. I'd much rather have an electrician certificate than a meaningless arts degree from a third-tier university.

        EDIT: syntax was wrong
        Last edited by KrazyHorse; November 7, 2008, 13:15.
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

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        • #5
          The article is completely misleading on that point, by the way:

          One key concern is whether test results, at age 16, are really valid enough to indicate if a child should go to university or instead head to a technical school - with the latter almost certainly guaranteeing lower future earning potential


          Nonsense. They are comparing average college students with average technical school students. They need to try to compare the upper margin of technical school students with the lower margin of college students (who may not end up graduating, by the way). I don't doubt that the results would show that technical school students who just barely could have gone to college are better off doing what they're doing now.
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
          Stadtluft Macht Frei
          Killing it is the new killing it
          Ultima Ratio Regum

          Comment


          • #6
            It seems like it is a way for the state to save money for people who don't want to go to a typical 4 year college/university.

            Basically they are saying a High School degree isn't gonna cut it anymore. So why have the state pay for 11th and 12th grade (I guess which they consider college prep now) if they aren't going to go to college anyway.

            This way they shift the cost of 17 and 18 year old education to a private institution or perhaps a better way of saying it is the cut that cost out altogether.

            The downside, aside from all of the normal socialization of those 2 years, is that 16 is kind of an early age for someone to decide they want to be a plummer and to live with it for the rest of their lives.

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            • #7
              This is a choice, not a forced move.

              16 is kind of an early age for someone to decide they want to be a plummer and to live with it for the rest of their lives


              So instead they should waste two more years of their lives skipping classes and getting into trouble? Maybe go to college for a few semesters and then drop out?

              If they change their minds later they can go to a junior college and get back into the tertiary education stream. That's no different than what they would have done in the first place.
              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
              Stadtluft Macht Frei
              Killing it is the new killing it
              Ultima Ratio Regum

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Deity Dude
                The downside, aside from all of the normal socialization of those 2 years, is that 16 is kind of an early age for someone to decide they want to be a plummer and to live with it for the rest of their lives.
                What about the more obvious downside that it's blatantly racist?
                Unbelievable!

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                • #9
                  Why? Again, there's no forced move.
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Because the lowest tier of students who probably "aren't going to go to college anyway" would be shuffled into programs that guarantee it, and that tier has more minorities than any other, so this is obviously just another scheme designed to keep them second-class citizens. They'll each be the child left behind! [/sarcasm]
                    Unbelievable!

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                    • #11
                      would be shuffled into programs that guarantee it


                      There is no forced move. They are self-shuffling.
                      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                      Stadtluft Macht Frei
                      Killing it is the new killing it
                      Ultima Ratio Regum

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        By the way, I am fully in favour of forced shuffling, but this is not it.
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think this is an overall good idea, with the usual caveat that any good idea can fall apart with bad implementation.

                          I do think that here in the US we seem not to trust our students much. In my high school, which was full of immigrant children, kids from eastern europe and northeast asia usually came in with a higher level of mathematics knowledge than even the kids who came from prestigious or better funded schools in the US.

                          I also agree with the notion that not everyone is cut out for a bachelors degree, and that we as a country greatly underemphasize technical training and the living to be made from a trade - though the high wages for tradesmen is clearly due to that shortage.
                          If you don't like reality, change it! me
                          "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
                          "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
                          "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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                          • #14
                            There is far too much emphasis on college education compared to technical training.


                            Almost as important as not wasting time in highshool or college getting degrees you will not use is not being burdened by 20K odd in debt for a pretty peice of parchment.
                            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                            • #15
                              In elementary school I took math class with a kid who had Down's syndrome, while I already knew calculus.

                              Makes a lot of sense.
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

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