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  • Education Subsidies Thread

    Hey, that was a threadjack, let's continue this discussion here.

    The way that universities get paid money is:
    1. Tuition (Including Federal Loans/etc)
    2. State Funding (public only)
    3. Alumni/Gifts
    4. Federal Assistance (non-loans, I am talking about the research grant/program type of thing)
    5. University Programs (Store/Sports/Investment/etc)

    The majority of students go to state schools, so we can limit our consideration to them.

    In the past, more and more students have been going to university. This has required the universities to grow.

    Additionally, the demand for the best and brightest has gone up a lot, so universities have to pay their professors in the sciences more than previously. This probably extends to other areas as well.

    On the other hand, states have generally been pretty poor the last twenty (at least) years. People drop taxes, and states don't have the ability to take out loans like the federal government does.

    Therefore there is only a couple ways that universities can keep up with the raising costs. They can do 1, 3, or 5. Most universities seem to try to do some of all 3.

    I admit that the education subsidies puts some limits on how high they can raise tuition. However, this would cause them to reject students, which is the whole reason why they need more money in the first place.

    If you don't consider that the universities goals are to educate everyone who is able and inclined, than getting rid of federal subsidies would be a good thing. Most people disagree with this.

    JM
    Jon Miller-
    I AM.CANADIAN
    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

  • #2
    I don't think you can do this without a discussion of private schools as well.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #3
      Then you get the issue of liberal arts education being supported too compared to other forms of education much which results in:
      -people going there who can't really hack the course work and drop out, which is a big waste of resources.
      -people not getting involved in vocational education who would do better doing that.
      -getting not enough people involved in skilled trades in general.
      Stop Quoting Ben

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DanS
        I don't think you can do this without a discussion of private schools as well.
        Private schools are such a small set of the students.

        I would agree that a few of the very rich schools like Harvard set tuition just to be higher than the 'normal' schools (as they make sure through scholarships and loans that all students they want to attend can). But that is the exception, not the rule, and you can't make statements about student loans effects on tuition from that.

        I know that standard private church schools, which don't have Harvards endowment, have generally been poor places without a lot of nice things... (like decent pay for their professors) unless they raise tuition.

        JM
        Jon Miller-
        I AM.CANADIAN
        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Bosh
          Then you get the issue of liberal arts education being supported too compared to other forms of education much which results in:
          -people going there who can't really hack the course work and drop out, which is a big waste of resources.
          -people not getting involved in vocational education who would do better doing that.
          -getting not enough people involved in skilled trades in general.
          But this would be better solved by asking for colleges to require higher entrance exam scores or whatever, not by lowering student aid (and removing it completely would be catastrophic, we would lose a large portion of the good and very good people that our currently in our colleges (the great would still get in through scholarships)).

          JM
          Jon Miller-
          I AM.CANADIAN
          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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          • #6
            The reason why the assumtions:

            education = good
            students = consumers
            universities = sellers
            education system = market

            Is that most universities aren't run for profit. Their goal isn't to get the greatest

            income=price*consumer

            Their goal is to get the number of consumers in their 'area' at the level they desire. As such, rather than trying to maximize income, they are trying to maximize

            quality_education*consumer

            Now what quality_education they can provide is dependent somewhat on income. But most places are happy to drop quality if they can reach everyone they want to reach.

            JM
            Jon Miller-
            I AM.CANADIAN
            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jon Miller
              Is that most universities aren't run for profit. Their goal isn't to get the greatest
              I went to a state school. I think they are bought and sold by corporations. Part of it is that they don't get enough funding, but even if they did they would want more.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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