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Will bringing education to the masses inevitably lead to its degradation?

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  • Will bringing education to the masses inevitably lead to its degradation?

    A few thoughts on which I wanted opinions.

    First, on the purpose of education in a society. As far as I am aware, the classical world-view regarding education can be summed up as follows:

    The world is complex and cruel.
    We as humans have two sources of power when dealing with the world - tradition and reason.
    The power of tradition comes from a long process of the perfecting of systems that work (the distilled wisdom of the past).
    The power of reason comes from the fact that the world, though complex, still follows rules, and that those rules are often comprehensible.
    Neither is sufficient on its own - tradition without reason cannot sustain itself, and reason without tradition has no foundation upon which to build.
    Humans are, if left to themselves, pretty barbaric in nature.
    The ideal of civilisation is a harmonious amalgam of these tradition and reason - a people who can accept change yet be at peace with themselves.
    Therefore, the purpose of education is to do two things - to pass on the traditions of the civilisation to the new generations, and to develop within them the ability to reason about their condition, so that they are not slaves to the past. The idea is to give the young both roots and wings.


    Once, education was reserved for an elite. Generally, it was a hereditary elite. The religious orders and medieval unversities did to their part in making it more egalitarian, but it was still pretty much the province of civilisation-specific elites (aristocracies in Europe, the three higher castes in India, the wealthy in other parts of the world, and so on). One reason was that it was thought that the vast majority of people were incapable of being educated. The second was that education was power, and nobody willingly gives up control over the ultimate source of power.

    The modern, more egalitarian vision of education sees in it the same imperative - the passage of civilisation and culture to the young - but it assumes that everybody it seeks to educate is capable of becoming a model human being - that education is capable of counteracting many innate tendencies which are undesirable, such as xenophobia, or racism, or other things of this nature.


    I have a doubt in this regard. After reading extensively about the evolution of human nature, the social structures for which our brains are wired, and the role of nature versus nurture in personhood, I've come to the (rather disheartening) conclusion that the concept of universal education is utopian and that its goals are forever unachievable. Much as I wish that this were not so - who wouldn't want to live in a society of civil-minded, cultured, enlightened, and otherwise good people? - I'm forced to accept it because the analysis tilts in its favour.

    In fact, I go a step further, and conclude that any attempt to impose a standard - any standard, no matter how mild - on all of humanity is bound to fail, and fail badly.

    But my concern here is quite different. I am worried that, trying to "bring education to the masses" or to "democratise" education, we may be ruining the educational tradition itself. I don't really know much about about the school system of the USA, but I've heard a fair bit about it. What follows is based purely on what I hear from the US media.

    As far as I can make out, the pressures of "democratisation" are slowly but surely pushing education towards the lowest common denominator of achievement, and as of yet, we have no idea where that lies - the decline shows no signs of bottoming out. I see this in the Indian school curriculum, too, though to a slightly lesser extent.

    I became interested in this issue after borrowing a book from the Bhaskaracharya Pratisthan's library of mathematical books. It was by Steven Krantz, titled "How to Teach Mathematics". The appendices contained a number of insightful opinions from a number of contemporary teachers of mathematics, and almost all of them were critical of the current direction in which mathematics education was heading. Essentially, they were saying that "Johnny can't pass basic algebra, so let's dumb it down" wasn't a viable solution to the problem of declining abilities.

    But isn't the problem broader than merely mathematics? There will always be people who will be deficient in some area of endeavour, be it mathematics or something else. Generally, mathematics tends to amplify the problem, as it's the one subject where there is absolutely zero subjectivity involved. Now, to accommodate these deficient people, the standards will tend to slowly but surely creep downwards, because otherwise, the "inclusiveness" goal of the "democratised" educational scheme will be lost.

    The problem as I see it is that any attempt to truly bring education to the masses will succeed - but only by rendering education itself something fit for the masses. Elitist though that may sound, I'm afraid that it is, as far as I can make out, the bitter truth.

    So how should we deal with this problem? Should we re-institute the classical tradition for everyone - that you can take whatever you want, but that there will be absolutely no compromise on standards, and that if little Johnny has to repeat a grade four times before he passes or drops out, so be it? Or should we "stream" education into different ability grades, so that people get an education they are suited for? Or should we stream education, but allow anyone to take any stream, and maintain standards - so that people who aren't suitable for a given level will fail repeatedly, get the message, and change streams downwards? Tough as these choices may seem, they seem to be to me to be the only way of stemming the inevitable degradation of educational standards and the stopping of the destruction of the educational tradition itself.

    Opinions?

  • #2
    If you're actually "elite" you'll figure out a way, even if you have to do a lot of it yourself.

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    • #3
      aneeshm, did you ever figure out why people think you are a bigot?
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Aeson
        If you're actually "elite" you'll figure out a way, even if you have to do a lot of it yourself.
        Well, did you actually read what I wrote?

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        • #5
          Enforcing standards is hard and requires some to lose. Thats why Western nations don't do it
          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Patroklos
            Enforcing standards is hard and requires some to lose. Thats why Western nations don't do it
            Trophies for everyone or not keeping score comes to my mind. As a parent, a part of me wants to make sure the kids feelings aren't hurt but another part of me knows that they need to get accustomed to not always winning and sometimes failing miserably.
            Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

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            • #7
              Don't know why the OP has so much text.

              The value of the education intrinsically will not be degraded, but the value economically certainly would be. Supply and demand.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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              • #8
                I think that the goal of education in the classical times was very different than in our time.

                The instrumental-reason that is mainly characterizing modernity, also characterize which kind of education we are giving to our children.
                bleh

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                • #9
                  Our education is mainly build to provide workers for the industry. The goal of education in the classical times were mainly in the goal to make worthwhile citizen for the cities.

                  edit:
                  by classical times I am referring to ancient greece.
                  bleh

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                  • #10
                    What's the prob, we already have different grades of education. Not everyone needs to become another Steven Hawking. Standards at the uni are higher than at basic exam.

                    But a good basic level of education is certainly desirable for most, if not all, for several reasons IMO. For example one could claim democracy doesn't work if you only have dumb peasants as population (no offense to any peasants ). Or that a modern economy doesn't work without a certain base of reasonably educated work force.

                    Of course, question is what level of edu is considered "good basic level" here. As said above, workers in a modern factory don't need to be all Einsteins, but they shouldn't be cavemen either.

                    Whether you can eliminate all kinds of "bad things" (what you mentioned, racism etc.) via education is another question, I doubt that as well, but you certainly don't eliminate it (or just drive it back) without educating people at all.
                    Blah

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                    • #11
                      We need to rethink how education works and doesn't work more so than who that education is available to.

                      The reason we have to keep dumbing things down is not because the material is necessarily too difficult or that students are too dumb to grasp it, but because the basic assumptions about how to educate are entirely wrong. The structure and environment of school are counter productive to the goals of educating. School cares only about getting right answers but is ignorant of the fact that there are many ways to get right answers without actually learning anything.

                      I agree that it is wrong to insist on one standard for all students. Individualized standards are the most accurate and narrowly tailored standards we have and the only ones we should accept. The people best able to set individualized standards are not government or school bureaucrats, but individuals themselves.

                      Self-directed learning assisted by mentors and teachers is the best way to go.
                      Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                      When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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                      • #12
                        The goal of educating the masses, from a utilitarian perspective, is that then perspective Newton's which are born poor may still have an oportunity to use their talents.

                        An additional hope, and this appears to be born out, is that a more educated populace will be able to sustain a higher level then less educated one, and will be better able to engage in a democratic process.

                        This is true even if the general education level drops by giving it to all, which I agree occurs. Some of thisis because there are people below average out there, or who don't care, whoa re going to bring the average down.

                        JM
                        Jon Miller-
                        I AM.CANADIAN
                        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                        • #13
                          Let's look at societies with universal education and those without. Which are wealthier overall? Which would you rather live in?

                          My real question is why ansheem continues to troll here with his bigoted, elitist crap, when he gets no love here.
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                          • #14
                            Will Aneeshm ever make a thread that doesn't have a leading question for a title?
                            1011 1100
                            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                            • #15
                              On seeing the thread title I immediately thought "only one poster on here is likely to express this opinion". wd aneesh

                              wrt to the arguments expressed, it's important to distinguish between the negative effects of 'dumbing down', which I strongly disagree with, with educating the masses, which I whole-heartedly support.

                              It's education for the masses that has enabled countless millions, including my father, to elevate themselves above the harsh economic conditions into which they were born, and only a distant contempt for the masses could blind anyone to that progressive reality.

                              Quality education for all
                              Dumbing down

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