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  • What is poor?

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    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Even before the collapse of major U.S. banks and the Dow's plunge, the rolls of America's working poor grew as their piece of the U.S. economic pie shrank, according to a study released on Tuesday.

    The percentage of working families who were poor rose to 28 percent in 2006, from 27 percent in 2002, the Working Poor Families Project said in a report based on government data collected as part of the American Family Survey.

    "If we start factoring in what's happened this year, we know the number will increase," said Brandon Roberts, an author of "Working Hard, Still Falling Short."

    The report found that 9.6 million working families were poor in 2006, up from 9.2 million in 2002, the report said. "One-third of all (U.S.) children reside in low-income working families," said Roberts.

    By 2008 standards, the report defined working poor as a family of four living on less than $42,400 in the 48 contiguous states, or slightly more in Alaska and Hawaii.

    Income inequality grew over the period of the study, as janitors, cashiers, construction workers and nannies saw their portion of U.S. income decrease, compared to the richest workers, the report found.

    "The fact that it's (the number of poor families) gone up 350,000 from 2002 to 2006 during what were good economic times, some claim robust economic times, is pretty surprising and it's very revealing about the bifurcation of the economy," said Roberts.

    Twenty percent of working white families were low-income, while 41 percent of minority families were low-income, figures that were stable compared to 2002, the report said.
    $42,400/year seems high to me.
    Monkey!!!

  • #2
    Yes, that seems high to me as well. At least in most areas.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #3
      Considering full-time minimum wage rakes in about $14K/year or $28K/year between two parents, that's definitely way high.
      Unbelievable!

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      • #4
        I think they transposed some numbers. $24,400 seems more reasonable to me. IIRC, the median income for a family of four is in the mid 40s.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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        • #5
          The median income is 40k per year.

          JM
          Jon Miller-
          I AM.CANADIAN
          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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          • #6
            Comrade: No, apparently they got the numbers correct. This report defines poor as 2x poverty income.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #7
              It is reasonable. I am actually amazed that only 1/3 of children live in families where the combined income is less then 40k. Considering the average income is 40k (mean is closer to 20k, sorry, I got the words wrong), that means that most people are in two income households?

              JM
              Jon Miller-
              I AM.CANADIAN
              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

              Comment


              • #8
                Low income means being able to pay for oneself. A family of four can't pay form themselves on 20k a year.

                JM
                Jon Miller-
                I AM.CANADIAN
                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                • #9
                  You certainly can't have a single definition of 'poor', anyway. My salary is mediocre in Chicago, but if I lived in Kansas I'd be practically living the high life...
                  <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                  I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                  • #10
                    Very true, I was going to mention that but didn't.

                    JM
                    Jon Miller-
                    I AM.CANADIAN
                    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Poor should be a combination of:

                      Income
                      Housing costs
                      Staples costs (milk/etc)
                      Gas costs
                      Energy costs

                      JM
                      Jon Miller-
                      I AM.CANADIAN
                      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How about (income) * (cost of living) ? Seems simpler (though includes basically that list).

                        I'd say rural poor is around $25k-$30k for a family of 4 (depending on the rural area and your definition of rural). Urban poor is probably $30k-$35k (depending on the city). NYC you might go as high as 40k.
                        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by snoopy369
                          You certainly can't have a single definition of 'poor', anyway. My salary is mediocre in Chicago, but if I lived in Kansas I'd be practically living the high life...
                          Very true... which means any flat measure of "poor" fails.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by snoopy369
                            How about (income) * (cost of living) ? Seems simpler (though includes basically that list).

                            I'd say rural poor is around $25k-$30k for a family of 4 (depending on the rural area and your definition of rural). Urban poor is probably $30k-$35k (depending on the city). NYC you might go as high as 40k.
                            Once more, poor doesn't mean unable to live without assistance.

                            JM
                            Jon Miller-
                            I AM.CANADIAN
                            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Where did I say it was defined as unable to live without assistance?

                              I'd define the level of 'poor' as less than 10% of income is 'disposable' income; ie, 90%+ income is used on food, clothing, rent, transit, healthcare, etc., based on standard measures for 'minimum acceptable' based on the area.

                              For Chicago, family of 4, I'd use the following figures:

                              $800/mo rent ($9600)
                              $400/mo food ($4800)
                              $150/mo transit ($1800) (monthly bus pass for both parents)
                              $150/mo clothing ($1800)
                              $300/mo health insurarce ($3600)
                              $100/mo other health costs ($1200)
                              $70/mo electricity ($840)
                              $40/mo gas ($480)
                              $40/mo heat for 6 months ($240)
                              $20/mo water ($240)
                              $20/mo telephone ($240)
                              --
                              24,840
                              so around 28,000 is the level at which you can spend about 10% of your paycheck on optional goods, by this calculation; I'd guess that some of those costs are low estimates (kids in school have school item costs, for example, while younger kids go through clothes faster, plus diapers etc; daycare; and I'm assuming zero taxes, which may be inaccurate at that level.) Probably closer to $32,000 for a family of 4 in Chicago, which has a fairly low CoL for a large urban environment.
                              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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