welcome to the new socialist kingdom of Britain

[TheStinger]

Well I don't like it, but it's probably better than the alternative

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7665823.stm

it's quite a bizzare thing to happen in the uk, if it happens in the USA as well things have got bad

[Dauphin]

The main page link to that article says £40 billion. The reason for the difference is a reflection that the amount has been growing as the day goes on and they have forgotten to update.

[DanS]

It looks like the US will be doing the same thing in the coming days. It may be sooner rather than later, in order to recapitalize Morgan Stanley.

The FT is reporting that Germany is planning to announce a huge recapitalization before the markets open.

[Dauphin]

It reminds me of the old communist bank joke actually.

Polish joke from the Communist era...

A man goes into the Bank of Gdansk to make a deposit. Since he has never kept money in a bank before, he is a little nervous.

"What happens if the Bank of Gdansk should fail?" he asks.

"Well, in that case your money would be insured by the Bank of Warsaw."

"But, what if the Bank of Warsaw fails?"

"Well, there'd be no problem, because the Bank of Warsaw is insured by the National Bank of Poland."

"And if the National Bank of Poland fails?"

"Then your money would be insured by the Bank of Moscow."

"And what if the Bank of Moscow fails?"

"Then your money would be insured by the Great Bank of the Soviet Union."

"And if that bank fails?"

"Well, in that case, you'd lose all your money. But, wouldn't it be worth it?"

[Kidlicious]

Re: welcome to the new socialist kingdom of Britain

Originally posted by TheStinger
Well I don't like it, but it's probably better than the alternative

You mean actual socialism?

[SlowwHand]

Well, stuff it in your damn mattress. That's a sure way to make all fail. Then the money won't be worth anything.

[Lazerus]

I don't see what the problem with this is.

[chequita guevara]

Socialism is not when the state bails out the wealthy. That's state capitalism. Socialism is when the workers take all the property of the wealthy . . . without compensation!

[Dauphin]

Well, there was Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley where shareholders were told to **** off when the banks were nationalised.

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Socialism is not when the state bails out the wealthy. That's state capitalism. Socialism is when the workers take all the property of the wealthy . . . without compensation!

Now, now, Comrade Snuggles. "State Capital" is usually shorthand for National Socialism, like the first part of your description.

The latter event in your description is generally labelled "Communism." Socialism involves having the state own big swaths of industry without the capitalists or the workers' associations having much say in running the resulting companies, which are treated as though they have to make a profit, compete in price and maintain trained workforces. Generally, they do not make money; they do set prices; and they employ way more people than any private firm could afford or would need.

[chequita guevara]

Fascism is state capitalism, but not all state capitalism is fascism. Socialism not the state owning huge swaths of the economy. If it were, then Louis XIV would be a socialist. All feudal monarchies would have been socialist. Clearly it's ludicrous.

The difference between socialism and communism is not the end result, the common ownership of society, but how we get there. Communists understand we need to have a revolution. Socialists (outside the U.S., as the Socialist Party USA is a revolutionary party) think we can get there via parliamentary means.

[Imran Siddiqui]

State capitalism seems to be a contradiction in terms .

As in most definitions have "capitalism" be followed by something including 'private ownership of capital'.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
State capitalism seems to be a contradiction in terms .

As in most definitions have "capitalism" be followed by something including 'private ownership of capital'.

They still control the capital. Ownership is just another name for control of something.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Though when it is state capitalism, that necessarily implies the state controls the capital, does it not? State =/= private

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Though when it is state capitalism, that necessarily implies the state controls the capital, does it not? State =/= private

I don't call it state capitalism, but I see Che's point. It's more like mercantilism, because both the state and some "private" individuals control the capital.