The War on Intellectualism

[Q Classic]

I could be completely wrong, but I'm willing to wager that perhaps Imran was suggesting--and correct me if I'm totally off-base here, Imran--that regardless of whether FDR actually hired Keynes in some fashion, he still took some of his theories and notions and applied them.

In other words, while he didn't hew to one expert economist's orthodoxy, he did, y'know.

Listen.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles
But don't you see, Imran? He didn't listen to Keynes at all! He didn't have time for 'experts', 'facts', and 'intellectuals'. He shot from the hip and went with his gut!

Just like our sitting president...

Do you know what practical means? It means you try different things to see what works and what doesn't and then you use the practice that works. That's what he did. He didn't follow the advice of any certain economist. Economists of the day were telling him to stay the course and the economy would turn around on it's own. He rejected that in no uncertain terms.

[Traianvs]

FDR and Keynes lived concurrently. It's quite logical that FDR had adopted some principles from Keynes without doing everything Keynes proposed.

I believe there are many concepts we apply today even though we don't fully agree with them. That said, I'm in no way an expert on that matter so never mind

[Wiglaf]

HELLO I AM A LAW SCHOOL TEST

OH JOE BIDEN YOU ARE SUCH AN INTELLECTUL

OH JESUS JOE! YOU ARE REALLY TAKING IT HARD!

JOE I WASN'T SUPPOSED TO RAPE ANYONE BUT YOU'RE MAKING ME!

JOE NO ONE ELSE IN CLASS MISSED THIS QUESTION! JOE STOP BEING SO SUBMISSIVE!

AHTEGHRGRHGHGHG JOE !

JOE YOU REALLY ARE A BOTTOM!

BOTTOM OF THE CLASS THAT IS!



Intellectual party my ass. McCain is smarter than anyone except Abe Lincoln. How could he not be, he is old and his brain has been getting big for 72 years. Like all muscles it gets stronger with use.

[Q Classic]

Oh, Wiglaf, how you amuse.

[Kidlicious]

FDR tried to balance the budget for his entire presidency. He was never a Keynesian. Just because there are deficits when you are president doesn't make you Keynesian. His idea was to redistribute income with a balanced budget.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm sorry, but 1937 and 1938 were hardly "his entire Presidency". And after the economy went into the toilet again, he started up his Keynesian policies again.

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'm sorry, but 1937 and 1938 were hardly "his entire Presidency". And after the economy went into the toilet again, he started up his Keynesian policies again.

Imran, stop saying that FDR was just like Stalin and Hitler.

Wait, you are saying that, aren't you? Because they ran up deficits too.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I'm sorry, but 1937 and 1938 were hardly "his entire Presidency". And after the economy went into the toilet again, he started up his Keynesian policies again.

If you want to call a top tax rate of 91% Keynesian economics you need to brush up on your Keynesian theory. Also, deficit spending isn't all there is to Keynesian economic policy.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Well if FDR would have listened to economists during the great depression he'd be as stupid as you are.

you know I made an effort and called your statement idiotic, and not you. I sort of expect the same from you.
If not out of common courtesy, at least follow the "discuss the statement not the poster" rule.

Anyway, Mrs. Snuggles already made the ad-absurdum arguments for me. I hope his posts illustrates why your statement was dumb.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
That's an amusing statement, since the New Deal was pretty Keynesian .

Realizing you hate wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

Keynes's ideas influenced Franklin D. Roosevelt's view that insufficient buying-power caused the Depression. During his presidency, Roosevelt adopted some aspects of Keynesian economics, especially after 1937, when, in the depths of the Depression, the United States suffered from recession yet again following fiscal contraction.

PWN

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Do you know what practical means? It means you try different things to see what works and what doesn't and then you use the practice that works. That's what he did. He didn't follow the advice of any certain economist. Economists of the day were telling him to stay the course and the economy would turn around on it's own. He rejected that in no uncertain terms.

Actually the whole reason Keynes wrote his book was to challenge this orthodoxy. Adopting policies which challenged the economic orthodoxy precisely in the way Keynes suggested... must be a coincidence

If you want to call a top tax rate of 91% Keynesian economics you need to brush up on your Keynesian theory. Also, deficit spending isn't all there is to Keynesian economic policy.

Yes, there's government spending to stimulate the economy. You know... kinda like New Deal programs.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Aeson
Well, to be fair to Kid's statement, it'd be more like saying, "I don't know if I'd be listening to those doctors right now. They're the ones who I went to have my tonsils out and I woke up to find out I still had my tonsils and they had gelded me instead."

So you go to a farce doctor that cuts off your balls, and someone suggest you consult another physician to sew them back, and you go "i've had enough of doctors" and leave without your balls?

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Arrian
More to the point of the thread, I think, is the pervasive hatred of "intellectuals" in our culture (and the consequential glorification of know-nothings). Maybe it's not unique, but I get the feeling we take it further than other Western countries. You see it in public school. You see it in public life. It's everywhere, and it's messed up.

-Arrian

Going back to this...

When we see it in urban, African-American youth, who shame other black kids about 'acting white' because they do well in school, trying to learn as best they can, we decry it. We say it's bad, and it's not okay.

But when white people use it against other white people, or people who've 'acted white' for years, it's suddenly okay? Is it really just a matter of changing 'acting white' to 'being too intellectual' that somehow makes this all better?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

So you go to a farce doctor that cuts off your balls, and someone suggest you consult another physician to sew them back, and you go "i've had enough of doctors" and leave without your balls?

These aren't "other physicians" though. It's the same ones. And they aren't offering to sew them back on, in fact they're just asking you to pay them to perform the ball removal proceedure again.

----------------

There are economists out there who understand the problem. They aren't the ones we're consulting or putting in charge of the "fix". Paulson ran GS, helping to set up this mess. He's been Secretary of Treasury since. He's been wrong at every step of the way... and our "fix" is to hand him more money and ask him to fix it for us.

It's far closer to my analogy than yours... sorry.