Drugs

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Felch
I think better is relative. For people with mental illness, jail is better. But we should always be wary of extending state powers to "fix" people. It would suck if the shoe were on the other foot, and suddenly we're the ones being fixed.

So if you went insane you woudn't want anyone to fix you?

[Pekka]

Define insane first. And what is the right of the state to fix an insane person. Do you mean to say eveyone not like is no longer "incurable" and we should thrive to change them, even against their wishes?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
Define insane first.

I'll say that they are a danger to themselves or others although I don't like how that definition is used today. There are very sick people roaming the streets today. I think if you **** your pants and don't change them you should recieve help.

And what is the right of the state to fix an insane person.

As you might know already, I'm not big on rights. I think they should do it because it's better.

Do you mean to say eveyone not like is no longer "incurable" and we should thrive to change them, even against their wishes?

Definitely not.

[Pekka]

OK. Not saying there aren't sick people roaming the streets, and I'm not saying that there are people who are dangerous to themselves and others. And many of these also use drugs, or that some of the problems escalated and go to the poitn of street roaming because of usage of drugs.

I thought you were saying something else, or at least accepting the implications of it, but you weren't saying it at all so ... my bad.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Kidicious
So if you went insane you woudn't want anyone to fix you?

Branding someone insane and institutionalizing them is a convenient way for criminal regimes to silence critics. I'd rather be insane and free than cured and enslaved.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Felch



Branding someone insane and institutionalizing them is a convenient way for criminal regimes to silence critics. I'd rather be insane and free than cured and enslaved.

If regimes that you don't like ate peanut butter and jelly sandwiches would you support outlawing them?

[Felch]

If non sequiturs were made of aluminum, would you jerk off on them?

[Kidlicious]

It's been a pleasure talking to you, as always.

[johncmcleod]

The War on Drugs is just a typical product of social conservatism in America. Drugs policies have always been racist and a way for politicians to crack down on nefarious dark-skinned men, which makes them quite popular to voters. The logic behind these campaigns has always been the same. For opium, it was stopping those yellow men from corrupting our society, and a defense of our women. Often times the argument was that they would seduce white women with the opium, thus there needed to be laws to protect them. For marijuana, criminilization started in El Paso when a Mexican guy was high and shot a few people. Marijuana during that time was associated with the Mexicans, and we needed to protect ourselves from them. For crack and cocaine, well, that was against the blacks. Originally, when cocaine was considered a drug for blacks, the punishment was harsher than it was for crack. But then whites starting using cocaine a lot more and it became considered a white collar drug, and blacks started using crack more and became stereotyped as a drug for blacks. The result was that laws became much stricter for crack and became more lenient with cocaine. Blacks are also 7 times more likely to go to prison as opposed to rehab than whites.

There are too many problems with the idea of just shipping them to prison. Since Nancy Reagan's war on drugs campaign, the amount of inmates has doubled or tripled or something ridiculous like that (can't remember the number). Prisons are incredibly overcrowded in the US, and per capita we have more people in jail than the rest of the world. The majority of people in prisons are in for victimless crimes, ie drugs. Instead of rehabilitation, they go to an awful place where there is absolutely nothing to do and you sit around for hours in complete boredom. The result is that as soon as they get out the first thing they want to do is get high, and I don't remember exactly the numbers on inmates returning to prison but it is ridiculously high. I believe most that go to prison will return, and it is a vicious cycle that does not improve the drug problem in any way at all and only puts more people in the prison cycle. Proponents of the War on Drugs do not answer these types of questions, they will not discuss the fact that prison does not help things.

I think the reason it is so popular in this country is our strong Protestant heritage that is still powerful today. The American brand of Protestantism has always been a big anti-sin religion (as in these sects seem to just focus on abstinence from sin as the basis of their religion, ie it's all about being saved and turning away from alcohol and sin, etc.). So we're such a moralistic and uptight people, and we love to see moral politicians who crack down on the forces that corrupt our good old fashioned American society. Then if you're a politician and you don't aggressively pursue the war on drugs policy, they'll be like "What!!! Do you like drugs or something?!?!?!" and the populace will think you're evil.

[trev]

I have children who are now late teens, early twenties, from my observations of them and their friends and acquaintances I have become ever more convinced that drugs including marijuana are very harmful and affect society in terrible ways. My state of South Australia relaxed its marijuana laws resulting in a small fine only for possession and in general gives smaller sentences for possession and trafficking than other states of Australia.
The result has been an increase in drug use throughout society, an alarming increase in neglectful and abusive parents, mothers in particular, and a significant proportion of people in their twenties on disability and sickness benefits, due to the mental effects of drug use.
Substantially harsher sentences backed up by stronger educational programs are needed urgently here to reduce the drug problems and their is now constant debate about our lax maarijuana laws as most people have become aware of how much harm the lax laws have done. Possession limits have already been slashed, but there is much pressure to fully criminalize marijuana as a drug again.

[Kidlicious]

Some guy was recently arrested for blowing marijuana smoke in his 1 year olds mouth. He taught all of his kids to smoke marijuana as soon as they were old enough.

And parents who smoke mariuana are no where near as bad as parents who do meth.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by trev
I have children who are now late teens, early twenties, from my observations of them and their friends and acquaintances I have become ever more convinced that drugs including marijuana are very harmful and affect society in terrible ways. My state of South Australia relaxed its marijuana laws resulting in a small fine only for possession and in general gives smaller sentences for possession and trafficking than other states of Australia.
The result has been an increase in drug use throughout society, an alarming increase in neglectful and abusive parents, mothers in particular, and a significant proportion of people in their twenties on disability and sickness benefits, due to the mental effects of drug use.
Substantially harsher sentences backed up by stronger educational programs are needed urgently here to reduce the drug problems and their is now constant debate about our lax maarijuana laws as most people have become aware of how much harm the lax laws have done. Possession limits have already been slashed, but there is much pressure to fully criminalize marijuana as a drug again.

Do you have any serious data showing that marijuana use rose, or do you rely on the conservative press' anecdotical evidence?

Because in the Netherlands, marijuana consumption went down after legalization.

[Thue]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Some guy was recently arrested for blowing marijuana smoke in his 1 year olds mouth. He taught all of his kids to smoke marijuana as soon as they were old enough.

And parents who smoke mariuana are no where near as bad as parents who do meth.

Straw man argument.

Think of the children!

[LotC]

Originally posted by Jon Miller

I personally haven't touched it, and don't plan on. It isn't safe.

JM

That's not true. I've done acid well over 50 times, and while I have had a couple of bad trips they haven't had any lasting ill effects. I consider acid to be one of the safest drugs around if you are of sound mind. In fact, I think everyone should do it at least a couple of times in their lives and I believe it should be MANDATORY for anyone entering the field of mental health to do a practicum on it with an accompanying thesis.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Thue


Straw man argument.

Think of the children!

I wasn't really trying to argue with you, but since you think that I was I'll say that putting drug addicts in jail is generally good for children.