How did we get into this mess?

[Lancer]

Bill Clinton...



Barney Frank... "Even if there were problems the federal government doesn't bail them out" (He sure changed his song)



Pelosi before the bailout vote pinning it all on "Failed Bush economic policies" when in fact the dems fought his efforts to stop the bleeding. This speach killed the passage of the bailout which some think would have helped fix the mess.



Just so you know.

And here's a little bonus for ya. Bill Clinton on the comparison between being an associate of Rev Wright or David Duke, the KKK guy. Speechless.

[Aeson]

Last video: Bill Clinton steering away from idiotic issues clouding the campaign

(Though I'd change that to a if he was previously saying something about associations with Duke that brought on the comparison between association with Duke and Wright.)

[Aeson]

Hmmm... Bill Clinton's first video (even though I don't agree with the uptick rule) is actually refreshing. He admitted that his party had made mistakes. If only everyone (including Bill) could be so honest more often.

Lots of blame for this to go around...

[Aeson]

And Fox

[Arrian]

This speach killed the passage of the bailout which some think would have helped fix the mess.

I'm perfectly willing to believe it was an irresponsible speech, but seriously, if a bunch of Republican congresscritters switched their votes b/c mean 'ole Nancy hurt their feelings... dude! That's incredible, and far worse than what she did. I don't think that's why the votes didn't materialize, though.

My answer to how we got into this mess:

1) Fannie and Freddie were quasi-governmental agencies, with the "implicit" backing of the government, and often staffed with politicos, instead of financial experts. The Dems are probably more to blame here (they were more involved with Fan & Fred, and they are the party that tends to push for lending to the poor, regardless of the sanity of such lending), but the Republicans had Congress in the 90s and had both the Pres and the Congress in the 00s and failed to fix the problem. Seems to me then that they share some blame.

2) Piss-poor oversight of banking/financial companies. This one is on both parties as wel, IMO. The Reps for their constant "deregulate everything!" mantra. The Dems b/c Franks and Dodd were apparently asleep at the switch.

3) A whole bunch of stupid people. Lenders offering mortgages they never should have offered, and people accepting them. A culture that distains saving. Borrow everything! Want something you can't afford? Charge it, man. Want to go fight a war but don't want to pay for it? No problem, just borrow the money. Somebody else will deal with it.

-Arrian

[Vesayen]

Clearly Pelosi telling the Republicans it was their fault FORCED the Republicans to vote against what they thought was in Americas best interest? No no no, it could not possibly be they are playing partisan bull****, instead, Pelosi has a magical power over them, wherein, they would have voted for the bailout, but Pelosi's speach forced them to vote against what they thought was in the U.S.'s best interest?

[Patroklos]

Raines, and his numerous Democratic backers (mainly CBC) running interference for him. This could have all been avoided back in 2006.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Vesayen
Clearly Pelosi telling the Republicans it was their fault FORCED the Republicans to vote against what they thought was in Americas best interest? No no no, it could not possibly be they are playing partisan bull****, instead, Pelosi has a magical power over them, wherein, they would have voted for the bailout, but Pelosi's speach forced them to vote against what they thought was in the U.S.'s best interest?

Pelosi is Bene Gesserit!

[Arrian]

I think the idea that this could've been "avoided" is a bit of a pipe dream. If you want to say "dealt with in a less painful manner" then fine. But there was always going to be pain.

-Arrian

[Verto]

Oh, Lancer, you and your "gotcha" journalism What would McCain say if he saw you?

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Lorizael


Pelosi is Bene Gesserit!

Do you think she will sell me some spice, or teach me the ways of the force? Clearly the Republicans are weak minded if they fall for jedi mind tricks.

*waves his hand* These are not the corporate tax cuts you are looking for!

[Patroklos]

Yeah, mitigated is more like it. The underpinnings of this crisis are over a decade old.

[Vesayen]

Wrong. The basis of the crisis is when regulating bodies under the control of the Republicans, changed regulations, i.e. eliminated them, while at the same time encouraging more people to take out mortgages they could not afford.

Prior, lenders were required to make some effort to ensure the people borrowing, could pay. The regulators removed that, this mess happened as a result(with some steps in between by private actors not members of the government).

People are treating this like some long term impossible to understand economic mystery, it is not.

Lenders did not mind giving out bad loans because they made a killing in the fees and then sold the loans to the big interests, who packaged good loans with crappy loans and split them into pieces, than sold them to investors. It lasted till people realized they were buying worthless securities, than no one wanted to buy them and the holders of the interests were than stuck with them.

If the regulation requiring that lenders actually see that the borrowers could afford to pay, this would not have happened.

[Patroklos]

Wrong. The basis of the crisis is when regulating bodies under the control of the Republicans, changed regulations, i.e. eliminated them, while at the same time encouraging more people to take out mortgages they could not afford.

Except that although you and others on this board have been asked this many times you can not actual produce relevant regulations that were removed.

You also can't produce Democratic proposed regulations to fix the underlying problems. Finding sensible Republican regulation proposals is easy.

Its not about less or more regulation, it is about the right regulation.

Prior, lenders were required to make some effort to ensure the people borrowing, could pay. The regulators removed that, this mess happened as a result(with some steps in between by private actors not members of the government).

You really have no idea how this happened do you?Look up Raines and the 2006 Freddie Mac/Fanny Mae accounting scandel, and then look up who his supporters were and what they struck down.

[Vesayen]

Except that although you and others on this board have been asked this many times you can not actual produce relevant regulations that were removed.

Regulations for many agencies are internal and not something easily available to the public outside of official documents for the industry. Further, even if they are not readily available or easy to find, that does not mean they do not exist. I suppose the New York Times and other respectable media sources are lying about this in some sort of grand conspiracy?

You also can't produce Democratic proposed regulations to fix the underlying problems. Find Republican regulation proposals is easy.

How is this relevant?