Happy Liberation Day

[Dr Strangelove]

So what are they celebrating on October 1? Is it the day that the communists declared the PRC, or the day the Communists took Beijing?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia


All right, gotcha.

I'd say there's little doubt that the nation is independent.

But there's plenty of debate over whether (and the degree to which) its people are free.

I will say though that it would be just like Chinese people to celebrate the liberty of their government when they themselves are not liberated.

I hope you aren't taking any offense to this.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
So what are they celebrating on October 1? Is it the day that the communists declared the PRC, or the day the Communists took Beijing?

It's the day that Mao Zedong made the declaration from the Tian An Men gate that China was under Communist rule and had "stood up".

I am pretty sure Beijing was liberated significantly earlier. I think the date is specific to the Communists solidifying power and driving the last of the Kuomintang off the mainland.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I will say though that it would be just like Chinese people to celebrate the liberty of their government when they themselves are not liberated.

I hope you aren't taking any offense to this.

No, not at all.

I agree there's an uneven-ness to the freedoms of the state vs. those of the people. I can go into discussions of the Imperial-cum-Marxist history vs. Enlightenment rights of man, but I don't want to risk boring you (unless you want to take it in that direction).

However, I do think that there is a survival question for the country first and then its people second. Even if you look at the grand experiment in freedoms and democracy that is the USA, it grew out of a handful of states where slavery was the norm, and the overriding struggle was for state sovereignty first. Only after that was established, did the country become stable enough to gradually promote its citizens' rights.

China, being an autocratic state, has greater difficulties in moving along that liberalizing path for its citizens. Doubtless, the government exploits the mantra of strength and unity for its own ends. It may well be withholding or retarding the development of personal rights in an effort to maintain its own grip on power.

But the initial drive towards national sovereignty is (or was) valid - especially given that the bad old days of colonialism and concessions to foreign nations is still just barely within living memory to the last living generations of Chinese.

So it's an odd situation certainly to western observers, where the Chinese people celebrate a government that has affords them fewer rights than most Westerners would feel comfortable with.



Edit: LOL at the fact that the censor blanked out the word cum. Especially given that I'm posting it.

[Riesstiu IV]

Lmao Zedong.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
I agree there's an uneven-ness to the freedoms of the state vs. those of the people. I can go into discussions of the Imperial-cum-Marxist history vs. Enlightenment rights of man, but I don't want to risk boring you (unless you want to take it in that direction).

It sounds interesting, but it's your thread and I don't want to decide which direction it goes, atleast not yet.

However, I do think that there is a survival question for the country first and then its people second. Even if you look at the grand experiment in freedoms and democracy that is the USA, it grew out of a handful of states where slavery was the norm, and the overriding struggle was for state sovereignty first. Only after that was established, did the country become stable enough to gradually promote its citizens' rights.

That's an interesting point of view and one that I don't think that is common in the US. The common view in the US is that we started off more free and we have been gradually becoming less free. That probably has a lot to do with the fact that we are a white male dominated society though. From a minority's point of view it may seem as though we are getting freer.

Still though if you could go back in time and talk to an American in the 18th century I think you would find him to be very opposed to strong government. That contrasts with the attitude of most Chinese citizens today.

Even today Americans don't trust at least a part of their government, but they do tend to trust the part of their government that claims to act in their interest. I think Chinese believe that their government acts in their interest. So in that way they aren't that much different from modern day Americans.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Lmao Zedong.