Debate the Debate's Debate

[MarkG]

It's a safe bet

all i need from you is a good moto

[Lancer]

Elect us, or be banned?

[Lancer]

Doesn't really fit with my anti abuse of power crusade, but it has a certain ring.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DanS
Obama was a little better on the economy (I expected better), but McCain took the foreign policy portion rather handily.

I was hoping for Obama knocking out McCain but he just delivered a win instead of a knock out. CNN's poll is showing 52% say Obama won, 38% say McCain won, and 10% don't know so it really does seem like a win but not a knock out.

[tinyp3nis]

Viewers can always trust the big party candidates with their corporate backing to tell the truth and nothing but the truth. Viewers can also trust that the opinion they formed after the debate is the correct one because they are infinitely wise and the big corporate media agrees with them. CNN is in the movies, it's to be trusted!

Does anyone remember this guy? version 2000

[Darius871]

Does anyone know if the quip about Henry Kissinger was true or not? McCain was totally incredulous that the man he's "known for 30 years" would have said any such thing, so a fact-check on this would be interesting.

[Ramo]

Obama dropped the ball on the economic part of the debate, but picked it up later. I thought it was a tie overall, but given the environment, and that this is McCain's strongest set of issues, that's good news for Obama.

[MarkG]

During the debate, Obama pointed to Kissinger to defend his position because the former secretary of state supports direct talks with high-level Iranians without preconditions. Kissinger does not, however, support the U.S. president personally engaging in those talks, a point which McCain sought to drive home during the debate.

While it appears Kissinger and Senator Barack Obama disagree on what level those talks should occur, they do agree talks should begin, in Kissinger's words, “at a very high level” and without preconditions.

During the debate, McCain said that Kissinger would not endorse Obama's position that he would meet on a presidential level with leaders of enemy countries. "I guarantee you he would not say that," McCain said of Kissinger.

Obama took issue with McCain's characterization of the former top diplomat's position, but just last week Kissinger said that, while he broadly agrees on the need to negotiate with Iran, he "preferred doing it at the secretary of state level."

When asked if high level talks with Iran should begin right out of the box, Kissinger replied "Initially, yes."

According to Obama's official website he supports "direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions."

On preconditions the two appear to agree. Last week Kissinger also said that "I do not believe that we can make conditions for the opening of negotiations."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/fact-check-kiss.html

[MarkG]

Palin

"I think, with Ahmadinejad, personally, he is not one to negotiate with," said Palin, referring to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "You can't just sit down with him with no preconditions being met."

"Barack Obama is so off base in his proclamation that he would meet with some of these leaders around our world who would seek to destroy America and that, and without preconditions being met," she continued. "That's beyond naïve. And it's beyond bad judgment."

Asked if she considers former Republican Secretary of State Henry Kissinger to be "naïve" for supporting talks without preconditions, Palin said, "I've never heard Henry Kissinger say, 'Yeah, I'll meet with these leaders without preconditions being met.'"

Palin was overlooking that Kissinger (with whom she met earlier this week) has backed negotiating directly with Iran over its nuclear program and other bilateral issues -- a point which Couric reconfirmed at the closer of her interview.

"Incidentally," said Couric, "we confirmed Henry Kissinger's position following our interview, he told us he supports talks if not with Ahmadinejad, than with high-level Iranian officials without preconditions."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/palin-kissinger.html

[MarkG]

* Obama said McCain adviser Henry Kissinger backs talks with Iran "without preconditions," but McCain disputed that. In fact, Kissinger did recently call for "high level" talks with Iran starting at the secretary of state level and said, "I do not believe that we can make conditions." After the debate the McCain campaign issued a statement quoting Kissinger as saying he didn't favor presidential talks with Iran.
* Obama denied voting for a bill that called for increased taxes on "people" making as little as $42,000 a year, as McCain accused him of doing. McCain was right, though only for single taxpayers. A married couple would have had to make $83,000 to be affected by the vote, and anyway no such increase is in Obama's tax plan.
* McCain and Obama contradicted each other on what Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen said about troop withdrawals. Mullen said a time line for withdrawal could be "very dangerous" but was not talking specifically about "Obama's plan," as McCain maintained.
* McCain tripped up on one of his signature issues – special appropriation "earmarks." He said they had "tripled in the last five years," when in fact they have decreased sharply.
Obama claimed Iraq "has" a $79 billion surplus. It once was projected to be as high as that. It's now down to less than $60 billion.
* McCain repeated his overstated claim that the U.S. pays $700 billion a year for oil to hostile nations. Imports are running at about $536 billion this year, and a third of it comes from Canada, Mexico and the U.K.
* Obama said 95 percent of "the American people" would see a tax cut under his proposal. The actual figure is 81 percent of households.
* Obama mischaracterized an aspect of McCain's health care plan, saying "employers" would be taxed on the value of health benefits provided to workers. Employers wouldn't, but the workers would. McCain also would grant workers up to a $5,000 tax credit per family to cover health insurance.

McCain misrepresented Obama's plan by claiming he'd be "handing the health care system over to the federal government." Obama would expand some government programs but would allow people to keep their current plans or chose from private ones, as well.

McCain claimed Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower had drafted a letter of resignation from the Army to be sent in case the 1944 D-Day landing at Normandy turned out to be a failure. Ike prepared a letter taking responsibility, but he didn't mention resigning.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/161148

[Darius871]

Originally posted by MarkG

Kissinger does not, however, support the U.S. president personally engaging in those talks, a point which McCain sought to drive home during the debate.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalra...heck-kiss.html

Oooh, snap!

[MarkG]

the fun part about all that is that the bush administration has broken the ice with iran recently, starting some talks...

[Kidlicious]

I think it's just wrong that Obama would claim that Kissinger agrees with him anyway. Obama sucks.

He also looked bad in the debate arguing that he was against the war, but at the same time arguing that we need to beef up troops in Afganistan.

[Kidlicious]

"* McCain repeated his overstated claim that the U.S. pays $700 billion a year for oil to hostile nations. Imports are running at about $536 billion this year, and a third of it comes from Canada, Mexico and the U.K."

Well... Canada is a totalitarian government.

[Wezil]

Stop telling our secrets Kid!

Wrt Afghanistan - That's the "good" war. It's okay to support it.