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How far has America progressed on its road to Empire?

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  • #1

    How far has America progressed on its road to Empire?

    Assuming America is the new Rome.


    And assuming you agree with my opinion that the presidency of the United States of America has over its history assumed more and more power and will continue to do so.

    Also assuming that you agree that the senate in ancient Rome has several striking similarities to the modern US senate.


    What we consider the first Roman emperors where considered at the time just heads of the Republic, the first among equals.


    Is it possible that historians will look back and say that the 20th or 21st century saw America's first Caesar and marked the end of the Republic?


    Will any of the candidates prove to be the "first emperor"?



    Especially Obama seems like a potential Caesar. Sara seems like a potential Nero.

    edit: Seems I'm not the only one to notice
    0
    Already an Empire
    0%
    0
    will become an Empire in less than 50 years
    0%
    0
    will become an Empire in more than 50 years
    0%
    0
    America wil never become an Empire
    0%
    0
    It was never a republic to begin with
    0%
    0
    Its a banan republic
    0%
    0

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Heraclitus; September 21, 2008, 03:51.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Sorry, America's on the decline.

    We're still No. 1 in military might and higher education.
    But our manufacturing base is now in China.
    Our service sector is now in India.
    Our trade surplus is now a trade deficit.
    The Euro's outstripping the dollar.
    Bollywood is putting out more movies that are watched by more people than is Hollywood.
    Germany has outstriped us in alternative energy.
    Our ports are run by foreigners.
    Our lifespans are the shortest in the industrialized world.

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Zkribbler
      Sorry, America's on the decline.

      We're still No. 1 in military might and higher education.
      But our manufacturing base is now in China.
      Our service sector is now in India.
      Our trade surplus is now a trade deficit.
      The Euro's outstripping the dollar.
      Bollywood is putting out more movies that are watched by more people than is Hollywood.
      Germany has outstriped us in alternative energy.
      Our ports are run by foreigners.
      Decline has little to do with being a Republic or Empire.

      Its perfectly possible to be a runt empire, like a certain African emperor showed.
      Last edited by Heraclitus; September 21, 2008, 03:51.
      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Zkribbler
        Germany has outstriped us in alternative energy.
        But you've outstriped Germany in your flag

        Comment

        • #5
          The biggest dangers to the American republic is the news media. It's being concentrated into the hands of a few megacorporations.

          Few viewpoints are being heard.
          Inexpereinced news bunnies are being given plum assignments because of their looks. Their news stories have the depth of a gnat's knee.
          Pack journalism is the norm.

          Without an educated and thoughful electorate, we will increasingly focus on the simple (i.e on the Presidency) and our other governing institutions will decline in prestige, power and influence.

          Comment

          • #6
            What a dork. America doesn't want to be an empire, or we already would be.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment

            • #7
              We've been an empire since 1781, when Britain gave us all their territory West of the Appalachians.

              We've had an overseas empire since 1898.

              Today we control most of the world, although, due to the complete mismanagement of the current occupants of the White House, the empire is in trouble. Bush
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Zkribbler
                Sorry, America's on the decline.

                We're still No. 1 in military might and higher education.
                But our manufacturing base is now in China.
                Our service sector is now in India.
                These first 3 sound like an empire.
                “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                "Capitalism ho!"

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles


                  We've had an overseas empire since 1898.
                  Correction, we've had an overseas empire since the issuance of the Monroe Doctrine in 1823. Since then it has been used as the basis with which the United States has sculpted the Western Hemisphere to suit its own needs.
                  "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    What portion of the world's disposable capital is American? I thought it was somewhere close to 50%, or maybe that's the combination of US and UK capital.
                    "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      What constitutes an empire? It's more than having influence. We don't have vast lands that we took over.
                      We're not an empire.
                      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SlowwHand
                        What constitutes an empire? It's more than having influence. We don't have vast lands that we took over.
                        We're not an empire.
                        Influence isn't the correct term for what we do. We support governments that wouldn't be able to maintain control without us.
                        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Describe it as you like; the fact remains, we're not an empire, nor do we aspire to be one.
                          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SlowwHand
                            We don't have vast lands that we took over.






                            This guy might disagree.


                            As would the Mexicans and Spanish.



                            But again this isn't my point, Rome was a superpower when it was still a republic. I'm talking about the US President becoming a practical Emperor And no it won't look like "the USA must be remormed for into the first American Empire for a safe and secure society", America will keep the appearance of democracy for a very long time after transitioning to Empire, I also expect elections to hold for a very long time, just like was with the Roman Empire in the time of the Principate.


                            The president will become a de facto emperor and the US an Empire when:


                            -Wealth and wealth alone is sufficient to get elected, as was the case with the late Roman Republic. People like Crassus. These will undermine the US democracy untill the below becomes true.

                            -The winner of the elections will always be known in advance with little chance of surprise

                            -Candidates endorsed by the previous president will win the vast majority of the time. This will only not be the case when a business or military leader will take power or will use a pupet to do this for him.

                            -The Senate becomes a playground for the interests of the mega wealthy (Roman senators owned thousands of slaves while the average free man was living on what we would today call welfare)

                            -The Senate becomes viewed by the vast majority of the people as inefficient and unnecessary. Populists will appear who will argue the solution is to reduce the power of the senate and establishment, and will use this mantra to give themselves power.

                            -The Presidency and Vicepresidency grows in power beyond its constitutional limits and begins meddling in very heavily in the legislative and judicial branches of power or begins claiming itself above the classical three branches division.

                            -Shameless Bread and circuses
                            Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                            The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                            The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              If Bush had adopted Obama who'd changed his name to Gaius Iulius Obamus Augustus I'd see it as a turning point, other then that the US pres has already a strong enough position

                              Though Rome comparisons are funny. Another possible one is Athens, being a democratic leader of a large alliance stretching overseas against the big empire in the east, but showing at least sign of being an empire itself.
                              Blah

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