Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

U.S., Iraq reportedly close to pullout terms

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 3
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 template Next
  • #1

    U.S., Iraq reportedly close to pullout terms

    Iraqi officials: Deal would have all combat troops out by Oct. 2010, remaining forces gone about 3 years later. Story
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26074685/


    The one stumbling block, as it says, is that if troops aren't out whenever and exactly by the date they agree to, troops will be fired upon. I don't think that's going to be acceptable. It might should be, but I don't think it will be. If all goes as is currently being planned, we're talking 5 years.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead
    Tags: None
  • #2
    So the Iraqis finally forced Bush to agree to a time table.

    Cheney had been trying to force them to accept a permanent US presence but the Iraqis really want the US to leave.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: U.S., Iraq reportedly close to pullout terms

      Originally posted by SlowwHand


      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26074685/


      The one stumbling block, as it says, is that if troops aren't out whenever and exactly by the date they agree to, troops will be fired upon....
      As I read it, the agreement doesn't provide for that. This threat comes from al Sadr.

      Comment

      • #4
        As I read it, the agreement doesn't provide for that. This threat comes from al Sadr.
        And his threat is that the cease-fire ends if no timetable to withdraw is established.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

        Comment

        • #5
          Incidentally, Parliament just adjourned. No provincial elections, a key step to bringing the Sunnis into the political process, will happen this year. This was supposed to be the route that the Awakening groups could take towards political power, and so they're not happy (there have been recent clashes with the IIP). Kirkuk, the reason why provincial elections didn't happen, is still a powderkeg (the recent bombing in Turkey doesn't help).

          But it's good that the timetable's happening. Like everyone predicted, it calmed Sadr the hell down...
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

          Comment

          • #6
            The thing that calmed Sadr down was seeing his top officers getting plinked or rounded up.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

            Comment

            • #7
              Cheney had been trying to force them to accept a permanent US presence but the Iraqis really want the US to leave.
              What permanent presence?
              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

              Comment

              • #8
                The thing that calmed Sadr down was seeing his top officers getting plinked or rounded up.
                Sadr calming down was always about the political route being viable. The promise of provincial elections, then talks on the time-table are the fundamentals here.

                One of the many reasons why getting a provincial elections law passed is absolutely vital.
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Oerdin
                  So the Iraqis finally forced Bush to agree to a time table.

                  Cheney had been trying to force them to accept a permanent US presence but the Iraqis really want the US to leave.
                  Oh, bull****. Iraq has been like a virgin whore wannabe. Leave us alone, but not yet. We're not ready, but we want you to be ready. Teaser sluts.
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    What permanent presence?
                    U.S. seeking 58 bases in Iraq, Shiite lawmakers say
                    More on this Story

                    * Story | U.S. security talks with Iraq in trouble in Baghdad and D.C.
                    * PDF | Levin/Warner letter to Condoleezza Rice about the negotiations

                    By Leila Fadel | McClatchy Newspapers

                    BAGHDAD -Iraqi lawmakers say the United States is demanding 58 bases as part of a proposed "status of forces" agreement that will allow U.S. troops to remain in the country indefinitely.

                    Leading members of the two ruling Shiite parties said in a series of interviews the Iraqi government rejected this proposal along with another U.S. demand that would have effectively handed over to the United States the power to determine if a hostile act from another country is aggression against Iraq. Lawmakers said they fear this power would drag Iraq into a war between the United States and Iran.

                    "The points that were put forth by the Americans were more abominable than the occupation," said Jalal al Din al Saghir, a leading lawmaker from the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq. "We were occupied by order of the Security Council," he said, referring to the 2004 Resolution mandating a U.S. military occupation in Iraq at the head of an international coalition. "But now we are being asked to sign for our own occupation. That is why we have absolutely refused all that we have seen so far."

                    Other conditions sought by the United States include control over Iraqi air space up to 30,000 feet and immunity from prosecution for U.S. troops and private military contractors. The agreement would run indefinitely but be subject to cancellation with two years notice from either side, lawmakers said.

                    "It would impair Iraqi sovereignty," said Ali al Adeeb a leading member of Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki's Dawa party of the proposed accord. "The Americans insist so far that is they who define what is an aggression on Iraq and what is democracy inside Iraq... if we come under aggression we should define it and ask for help."

                    Both Saghir and Adeeb said that the Iraqi government rejected the terms as unacceptable. They said the government wants a U.S. presence and a U.S. security guarantee but also wants to control security within the country, stop indefinite detentions of Iraqis by U.S. forces and have a say in U.S. forces' conduct in Iraq.

                    The 58 bases would represent an expansion of the U.S. presence here. Currently, the United States operates out of about 30 major bases, not including smaller facilities such as combat outposts, according to a U.S. military map.

                    " Is there sovereignty for Iraq - or isn't there? If it is left to them, they would ask for immunity even for the American dogs," Saghir said. "We have given Bush our views - some new ideas and I find that there is a certain harmony between his thoughts and ours. And he promised to tell the negotiators to change their methods."

                    Maliki returned Monday from his second visit to Iran, whose Islamic rulers are adamantly opposed to the accord. Iran's Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamanei said following meetings with Maliki that we have "no doubt that the Americans' dreams will not come true."

                    Hoshyar Zebari, the Iraqi foreign minister, criticized the lawmakers for poisoning the public discussion before an agreement is concluded. He said U.S. officials had been flexible in the talks, as well as "frank and honest since the beginning."

                    "This is an ongoing process," Zebari said. "There is no agreement yet. Proposals have been modified, they have been changed and altered. We don't have a final text yet for them to be judgmental."

                    Zebari, who said a negotiating session was held with U.S. officials on the new accord Monday, said any agreement will be submitted to the Iraqi parliament for approval. Leaders in the U.S. Congress have also demanded a say in the agreement, but the Bush administration says it is planning to make this an executive accord not subject to Senate ratification.

                    Republican presidential candidate John McCain didn't respond for requests for comment, but the presumptive Democratic nominee, Barack Obama, said through a spokesman that he believes the Bush administration must submit the agreement to Congress and that it should make "absolutely clear" that the United States will not maintain permanent bases in Iraq.

                    Lee Hamilton, a former Democratic congressman from Indiana, said he had not heard of a plan to seek 50 or more bases in Iraq, and that if it is the case, Congress is likely to challenge the idea. "Congress would have a lot of questions, and the president should be very careful in negotiating," Hamilton, who now directs the Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars, told McClatchy.

                    The top U.S. Embassy spokesman in Iraq rejected the latest Iraqi criticism.

                    "Look, there is going to be no occupation," said U.S. spokesman Adam Ereli. "Now it's perfectly understandable that there are those that are following this closely in Iraq who have concerns about what this means for Iraqi sovereignty and independence. We understand that and we appreciate that and that's why nothing is going to be rammed down anybody's throat.

                    "It's kind of like a forced marriage. It just doesn't work. They either want you or they don't want you. You can't use coercion to get them to like you," he added.

                    U.S. officials in Baghdad say they are determined to complete the accord by July 31 so that parliamentary deliberations can be completed before the Dec. 31 expiration of the UN mandate.

                    The agreement will not specify how many troops or where they will be deployed, said a U.S. official who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of the subject, but the agreement will detail the legal framework under which U.S. troops will operate. The U.S. official said that in the absence of a UN resolution authorizing the use of force, "there have to be terms that are in place. That's the reality that we're trying to accommodate."

                    Iraqis are determined to get their nation removed from the purview of the U.N. Security Council under Chapter 7 of the U.N. Charter, which allows the international body to declare a country a threat to international peace, a step the U.N. took after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. Iraqi officials say that designation clearly is no longer appropriate.

                    But even on that basic request, the U.S. has not promised to support Iraq, Saghir said, and is insteadn withholding that support as a pressure point in negotiations.

                    U.S. demands "conflict with our sovereignty and we refuse them," said Hassan Sneid, a member of the Dawa party and a lawmaker on the security committee in the parliament. "I don't expect these negotiations will be done by the exact date. The Americans want so many things and the fact is we want different things."

                    "If we had to choose one or the other, an extension of the mandate or this agreement, we would probably choose the extension," Saghir said. "It is possible that in December we will send a letter the UN informing them that Iraq no longer needs foreign forces to control its internal security. As for external defense, we are still not ready."
                    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40372.html
                    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                    -Bokonon

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I find it hard, if not impossible, to believe we would want 58 bases there. I didn't read much after that initial crapfest.
                      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        I don't find it impossible to believe at all. And besides, what does the number of bases really matter? The point is that we're "negotiating" a long-term military presence in Iraq. Were you unaware of this?

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          We should negotiate a reciprocal Iraqi pullout of Western Europe.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            We asked for a lot of things at the beginning of the negotiations. That article was published 2 months ago. Nobody is forcing the Iraqis to do anything.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              We asked for a lot of things at the beginning of the negotiations. That article was published 2 months ago. Nobody is forcing the Iraqis to do anything.
                              Of course no one "forced" Iraqis to accept permanent bases. Since that clearly isn't happening. Thanks for the tautology of the day.

                              But we did pressure the hell out of them to accept. And the Maliki gov't went to Parliament with the status of forces agreement, and had his political base condemn it (i.e. Sistani). They're looking after their own asses.

                              And what relevance does "2 months ago" have, exactly? The negotiations have clearly been going on for a while.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 template Next
                              Working...
                              X