Global Dimming

[Felch]

I'm talking about overall, throughout the planet. Some places won't benefit, but on average this sounds like good news.

Besides, is it possible that they exacerbated their problems with poor farming techniques, or overgrazing?

[Felch]

According to wikipedia

There was a major drought in the Sahel in 1914, caused by annual rains far below average, that caused a large-scale famine. The 1960's saw a large increase in rainfall in the region, making the Northern drier region more accessible. There was a push, supported by governments, for people to move northwards, and as the long drought-period from 1968 through 1974 kicked in, the grazing quickly became unsustainable, and large-scale denuding of the terrain followed.

So, yeah, apparently if you let your goatherds tear out the root structures of all the plants and cause widespread erosion, then you'll have problems. That's not what we're talking about here.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Felch
More solar radiation and a warmer planet will have an amazing effect on plant life, and should greatly increase crop yields. Sounds like good news.

The 1st part of your statement is true. Unfortunately, plant life can't migrate as quickly as animals can and more sun, higher temps, more humidity and less rainfall will have a severely detrimental effect on plants (ask anyone who gardens why s/he checks soil moisture, PH levels, and sunlight before planting certain flora in certain locations). The warming/dimming combo would, according to Wiki, lead to less overall rainfall but a lot more humidity in the air.

There was a push, supported by governments, for people to move northwards, and as the long drought-period from 1968 through 1974 kicked in, the grazing quickly became unsustainable, and large-scale denuding of the terrain followed.

Felch, did you even read your own quote? Any overgrazing was after the drought.

[Whoha]

Yes, this is why we need to burn coal, and why China will save the world.

[Felch]

Your argument about plant migration would be more convincing if this warming were to occur over the course of a decade or so. Over a century, especially with human intervention, I think that plants will have plenty of time to adjust. After all, they've been through this sort of thing before, in the Eocene maximum.

The drought occurred. That meant that the plants which held the soil in place weren't recovering. Soil disappears, famine occurs.

People have been able to farm with limited rain for a while. Farming without soil is much harder.

In short, overgrazing was a factor. Nobody but you disputes this.

[Cartimandua]

I went and visited my parents last night and my mom was watching this show. She made me sit down and listen as she had never heard of Global Dimming before.

I'm not sure what to think, but it seemed to me that one of the scientists, a younger man, seemed to have a rather extremist viewpoint on a few things pertaining to the "end of the world as we know it". They gave a 'deadline' of 2021 (I'm pretty sure I didn't hear this wrong) when the earth's temperature will rise 18 degrees Fahrenheit and consequently the trees will die along with other plants, and drought will hit and famine will ensue. I don't know, it could be true, but it was a bit sensationalized for me.

[Provost Harrison]

Have the environmentalists found something else to drive us into a wild panic about eh? 18 degree temperature rise? Hmmm...

[Felch]

If I've learned anything from Fox News, it's a healthy skepticism of what TV tells me.

[Theben]

Hopefully you're skeptical about what Faux news says too. I agree that an 18 F rise in temp by 2021 is sensationalistic.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Felch
Your argument about plant migration would be more convincing if this warming were to occur over the course of a decade or so. Over a century, especially with human intervention, I think that plants will have plenty of time to adjust. After all, they've been through this sort of thing before, in the Eocene maximum.

I'm not sure you want to cite the Eocene maximum as a defense of your argument, since a 6C rise of temp over 20,000 years led to mass extinctions in the sea and dwarfism amongst mammals- a sign of reduced food resources available to them.
Humans will doubtless try to save their crops but I figure that's about it, since if we had something similar we'd be more concerned about the rising coastlines and dislocated coastal populations.

The drought occurred. That meant that the plants which held the soil in place weren't recovering. Soil disappears, famine occurs.

People have been able to farm with limited rain for a while. Farming without soil is much harder.

In short, overgrazing was a factor. Nobody but you disputes this.

My point is if the drought hadn't occurred (with indicators pointing towards dimming), overgrazing shouldn't have been a factor. Certainly less of one.

[BeBMan]

I never heard of it so it doesn't exist

[Felch]

Originally posted by Theben
I'm not sure you want to cite the Eocene maximum as a defense of your argument, since a 6C rise of temp over 20,000 years led to mass extinctions in the sea and dwarfism amongst mammals- a sign of reduced food resources available to them.
Humans will doubtless try to save their crops but I figure that's about it, since if we had something similar we'd be more concerned about the rising coastlines and dislocated coastal populations.

I hear you on this. I just think that there are too many sensationalists out there who are only looking at how bad things will get, and not considering the positives.

My point is if the drought hadn't occurred (with indicators pointing towards dimming), overgrazing shouldn't have been a factor. Certainly less of one.

Overgrazing is a very serious concern in the Sahel. The flora there is critical for preventing desertification, the economy dependent on herding, and much of that herding involves goats. Goats are notorious for destroying plants down to the roots. This isn't some radical notion either; the dangers of overgrazing have been an environmental issue for decades. One that is so undisputed that I even agree with it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by BeBro
I never heard of it so it doesn't exist

Is this called Eardealism?

[Theben]

Originally posted by Felch
This isn't some radical notion either; the dangers of overgrazing have been an environmental issue for millenia.

fixed.

I agree, but if the land wasn't so parched maybe the goats wouldn't be able to inflict such damage, right? At any rate the Sahel, as it currently stands, isn't prime ground for herding.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Have the environmentalists found something else to drive us into a wild panic about eh? 18 degree temperature rise? Hmmm...

Don't worry, by the time that happens we'll be past The Singularity and the genius machines who will have exterminated our species will find a solution. Either that or it will drown the bastards and we'll be avenged. So it's win-win.