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  • US Presidential Election 2008 Thread

    I figured there will be plenty of news from the election. Instead of making 5,000,000 threads on it, lets consolidate.

    Anyway, an article from the Washington Post:



    Obama Urges Opening Up Oil Reserves
    Policy Shift Is His Second in a Week on Energy Issue; McCain Urges Immediate Drilling

    By Perry Bacon Jr. and Michael D. Shear
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Tuesday, August 5, 2008; A04


    LANSING, Mich., Aug. 4 -- Sen. Barack Obama called Monday for using oil from the nation's strategic reserves to lower gasoline prices, the second time in less than a week that he has modified a position on energy issues, as he and Sen. John McCain seek to find solutions to a topic that is increasingly dominating the presidential race.

    In a speech here, Obama outlined a plan to reduce an addiction to foreign oil that he said is "one of the most dangerous and urgent threats this nation has ever faced." He repeated his call for a $1,000 "energy rebate" for low- and middle-income families that would be paid for by a windfall-profits tax on oil companies.

    The Obama campaign did not predict how much releasing reserves would lower gas prices. But it said prices at the pump went down more than 19 percent within two weeks when President Bill Clinton made such a move in 2000.

    His proposal comes a month after Obama said he would consider using oil from the reserves only in a "genuine emergency," such as "terrorist acts." Aides said the plan is not a reversal because he would replace light crude oil in the reserves with less-expensive heavy crude. They also noted that the senator from Illinois last week described the country's economic conditions as an "emergency."

    The Bush administration said it opposed using oil from the reserves when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) called for it last month. McCain mocked the idea on Monday.

    The proposal, along with Obama's comments last week that he would consider expanding offshore drilling as part of a comprehensive energy bill, illustrated how both candidates are trying to find quick fixes to $4-a-gallon gas and other rising energy costs. McCain had also opposed additional offshore drilling until reversing his position in June, and he has called for a suspension of the federal gas tax.

    But their proposals reflect a problem both candidates face: There are few ways to dramatically reduce gas prices, even as voters demand solutions.



    A lot of Dems have talked about McCain's flip-flopping. I'm not sure they can continue doing so when Obama quickly changes his positions for the political mood as well. Let's just call them both flip-floppers and stop trying to treat the term like it has any meaning in this Presidential election cycle.
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    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

  • #2
    Indeed ...

    We could always transfer the whacko farm subsidies over to oil subsidies
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    • #3
      I respected Obama a lot more when he was insistent that energy solutions were long term things and that none of this short term stuff would really help.

      This is getting kinda sad
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      • #4
        Re: US Presidential Election 2008 Thread

        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
        A lot of Dems have talked about McCain's flip-flopping. I'm not sure they can continue doing so when Obama quickly changes his positions for the political mood as well. Let's just call them both flip-floppers and stop trying to treat the term like it has any meaning in this Presidential election cycle.
        So...a willingness to enter into a compromise is now a flip flop?

        "When I use a word," said Humpty Dumpty, "it means exactly what I mean it to say. No more. No less." He wiggled his eggy toes in his brand new pair of flip flops.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ninot
          I respected Obama a lot more when he was insistent that energy solutions were long term things and that none of this short term stuff would really help.

          This is getting kinda sad
          It's getting a litlle more realistic. Talking of long term goals are all fine and good, but the short term needs to be addressed as well.
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          • #6
            Does anyone else not actually care that gas prices are $4/gallon? I care about our dependance on oil, but I don't care that gas (and things brought to me by vehicles that use gas) are a little more expensive.
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            • #7
              Two Party Tyranny political system in the United States, by advocating third parties based on a fairer system including ballot access, public funding and candidate accessibility and exposure.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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              • #8
                A lot of Dems have talked about McCain's flip-flopping. I'm not sure they can continue doing so when Obama quickly changes his positions for the political mood as well. Let's just call them both flip-floppers and stop trying to treat the term like it has any meaning in this Presidential election cycle.
                He said that he was willing the compromise as part of comprehensive energy legislation. It might be a flip flop, but it might not be. Depends on the specifics of the legislation we're talking about.

                And lest we forget, McCain flip-flopped on offshore drilling only a couple months ago.
                Last edited by Ramo; August 5, 2008, 13:31.
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                • #9
                  Obama is abandoning his platform wholesale because as we get closer he needs substance and his empty slogans won't hunt.

                  He now has pretty much McCain's exact Iraq policy only a year after the fact, and will soon pretty much have McCain's exact energy policy, only a year and change late.

                  So why not elect the politician with the ideas in the first place?

                  I respected Obama a lot more when he was insistent that energy solutions were long term things and that none of this short term stuff would really help.
                  I am for short term and long term in equal seriousness, hence McCain.
                  "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                  • #10
                    He now has pretty much McCain's exact Iraq policy only a year after the fact

                    You're completely deluded here...

                    and will soon pretty much have McCain's exact energy policy, only a year and change late.

                    So why not elect the politician with the ideas in the first place?
                    This is pretty ironic given that McCain flip-flopped on his own cap and trade legislation (Lieberman-McCain became Lieberman-Warner for a reason).
                    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SlowwHand


                      It's getting a litlle more realistic. Talking of long term goals are all fine and good, but the short term needs to be addressed as well.
                      For short term:
                      1) Obama has proposed opening up the stratetic oil reserve.
                      2) Conservation. For example, he's pointed out that if American's properly inflate their tires and tune their cars, this will save more oil NOW than offshore drilling will produce later. McCain is attempting to ridicule this (I guess because he's now on the payroll of Big Oil companies and doesn't want Americans to conserve.)
                      3) $1,000 tax rebates to Americans, paid for by a windfall profits tax on oil companies.

                      [Note: I support only one of these three suggestions.]

                      McCain has no short-term suggestions.

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                      • #12
                        This is pretty ironic given that McCain flip-flopped on his own cap and trade legislation
                        Cap and trade is not energy Ramo, it is enviromental. Of cours McCain's nuclear policy and Obama's lack there of will probably be more effective enviromentally than any cap and trade anyway.
                        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                        • #13
                          Cap and trade is energy policy, obviously. What would you describe it as?
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Patroklos
                            Obama is abandoning his platform wholesale because as we get closer he needs substance and his empty slogans won't hunt.
                            No, it's because he's following the political consensus which says you tack towards your base in the primary and away fro it in the general. The result of his flip-flopping is that Nader is polling at 6%. Interestingly, Bob Barr is polling at 4%.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                            • #15
                              Imran

                              Seriously, neither side can honestly label the other "flip flopper."

                              McCain 2000 and McCain 2008 are quite different. Hell, McCain 2007 and 2008 are pretty different.

                              Obama has altered some of his positions as well. Regarding off-shore drilling, I think he simply caved b/c of the poll numbers, and since that's not a core issue for me I'm ok with it. Not happy, but ok. Politicians "flip flopping" is only shocking if you don't pay attention... which of course applies to a large % of the electorate. We'll see if the charge sticks to either of them.

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