GM Loses Another $16 Billion -- Bankrupt?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Oerdin

Originally posted by Darius871
"Neither were allowed to... declare bankruptcy." =/= "One declared bankruptcy, and one nominally declared bankruptcy which involved such unusual terms that it's rather disingenuous to label it bankruptcy per se." There's no point digging the hole any further.

Originally posted by Oerdin

I immediately corrected

What part of it is giving you trouble?

The part about there being a space-time continuum, with some statements preceding others.

[Dinner]

Space-time continuum? What are you on about? I posted a few things about the Daewoo case most notably a book chapter I said I was reading to get more information.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Asher, you are an ass clown. You're the one who claimed Kia was went through normal bankruptcy when it clearly didn't.

I just said it went through bankruptcy. It did.

Face it, you were completely wrong and you tried to google your way out of it but it failed you because you didn't go into the details.

How could I be wrong when the facts say they did declare Bankruptcy?

You live in a strange world.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Oerdin
What are you own about?

I'm own about you being owned.

[Dinner]

If by declare bankruptcy you mean Kia did nothing remotely similar to what any reasonable person would consider bankruptcy then yes but other wise no. Read the BBC article linked on the previous page.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If by declare bankruptcy you mean Kia did nothing remotely similar to what any reasonable person would consider bankruptcy then yes but other wise no. Read the BBC article linked on the previous page.

However, Kia's bankruptcy in 1997, part of the Asian financial crisis, resulted in the company being acquired in 1998 by South Korean rival Hyundai Motor Company, outbidding Ford Motor Company which had owned an interest in Kia Motors since 1986.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3533406.html

Kia, a major automobile producer with an international reputation, was the seventh largest chaebol in Korea. When Kia declared bankruptcy, the crisis was in full swing. If Kia could go under, nobody seemed safe. The problem was compounded by the indecisiveness of the Korean government. The banks were willing to reschedule Kia’s debts to avoid bankruptcy, in which case they would have to write off their loans to Kia. The government, however, opposed Kia’s request for rescheduling while demanding the resignation of Kia’s top management. Three months went by before the government finally put Kia on court receivership and turned it into a state-owned enterprise by converting government loans into equity. But the damage had been done.

You seem to have a warped sense of timeline.

It's very obvious Kia declared bankruptcy. Whether it agrees with your American-law definition of bankruptcy doesn't matter at all. It's just you squirming like a San Diego *****.

[Dinner]

Reprinted since the angry Albertan keeps repeating his line:

It was a very odd deal because the "bank" in question we controlled/owned by the South Korean government and anyone who wanted to bid on Kia had to present plans to boost exports, maintain employment, and inject capital over the long haul. That certainly was not regular bankruptcy since the government refused to even consider liquidating assets. It was an effective nationalization via a government controlled bank.

But auto makers remain important sources of employment and symbols of national strength in many countries, making governments reluctant to allow their closure or sale to foreign investors. Such worries appeared to have played a role this week in the failed auction of the Kia Motors Corporation and its truck-making affiliate, the Asia Motors Company Ltd.

Kia and Asia Motors were put up for sale together this summer by their creditor banks after becoming unable to make payments on their many debts, which total an estimated $10 billion. But with some of the largest banks now financially troubled and effectively controlled by the South Korean Government, the terms of the auction went far beyond a conventional sale to the highest bidder. Instead, the terms required each bidder to submit a business plan to maintain exports and invest more cash. The auction's terms also required that bids include a stiff price for the auto makers' shares and an agreement to repay all of the auto makers' debt.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9a0de2df153ff932a3575ac0a96e958260

Tell me of another "bankruptcy" where all debts have to be repaid, the company cannot be liquidated, employees cannot be fired, nor plants close. Face it Asher that wasn't much of a bankruptcy. That was a government take over with a later resale with lots of strings attached.

[Dinner]

Face it Asher that was a massive government intervention not any definition of bankruptcy.

Oh, and I'll compare the New York Times to a right wing think tank any day for truthfulness.

[DanS]

This is precisely how the Detroit Three can win support

Car union rules out concessions

By Bernard Simon

Published: November 16 2008 23:24 | Last updated: November 16 2008 23:24

The US United Auto Workers (UAW) union has ruled out concessions – at least for the time being – to help rescue the ailing Detroit-based car industry.

Ron Gettelfinger, the union president, said at the weekend that “the focus has to be on the economy as a whole as opposed to a UAW contract”.

“We’re here not because of what the auto industry has done”, Mr Gettelfinger said during a rare press conference. “We’re here because of what has happened to the economy.” The union represents blue-collar workers at assembly plants, as well as several parts suppliers.

The UAW contracts would almost certainly be reopened if any of the companies filed for bankruptcy protection.

The union has been emboldened by the election of a Democratic president and a Democratic-controlled Congress. Mr Gettelfinger said that “we need a package approved by this lame-duck session of Congress. If we don’t get it, I’m not sure some of these automakers will make it to mid-January when Barack Obama becomes president.”

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c9e117b6-b416-11dd-8e35-0000779fd18c.html

[Naked Gents Rut]

Let them all fail.

[Asher]

@ The San Diego Fratboy

I'm not sure why you keep posting when I and everyone else knows you are wrong. Posting it over and over doesn't fix that.



Summary for my rock-licking friend: They declared bankruptcy. Whether the government did something special afterwards or the "definition" of bankruptcy as you know it differs is none of my concern.

My job here is to illustrate you are wrong. This has been proven. All you're doing now is protesting like a child whose hand has been stuck in mommy's dildo drawer.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DanS
This is precisely how the Detroit Three can win support





http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c9e117b6-b...0779fd18c.html

I've long agreed the unions are run by nutjobs and if they remain militant and ignore reality then that is the quickest way to killing the auto industry. Hopefully they come around to reality and admit they can be making 25% to 33% more then Toyota or Honda makes nor can they continue to block international parts purchases or things like increased robots in factories.

[Dinner]

Asher, you live in your own little world man. Take it up with the New York Times if you don't like their facts but the facts remain true.

[Asher]

My favourite NY Times quote is their headline:

Koreans Place Kia Motors Under Bankruptcy Shield

[Dinner]

And then it goes on to say it is not normal bankruptcy at all.