Omar Khadr's Interrogation Videos

[Patroklos]

I'd ask you to quote anything backing your delusions up, but then we both know you won't (and can't) because they are, well, delusions.

Goodnight Ashie.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Felch


I'm too lazy and apathetic to research this, so I'll just ask you. Was this a wild and crazy firefight or more of a structured standoff? It matters because firefights can be pretty damn confusing.

There's a brief summary on wikipedia of the firefight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr

An F-18 came by and dropped two 500 lbs bombs on the house Khadr and 4 others were in.
3 of them died, Khadr and another lived.

The special forces team then went into the house expecting no survivors:

Unaware that Khadr and a militant had survived the bombing, the ground forces sent a team consisting of OC-1, Silver, Speer and three Delta Force soldiers[39] through a hole in the south side of the wall, while at least two other American troops continued throwing grenades into the compound.[40]
Speer being unloaded at Bagram.
Speer being unloaded at Bagram.

The team began picking their way over the bodies of dead animals and three fighters.[20] According to Silver's 2007 telling of the story, he then heard a sound "like a gunshot", and saw the three Delta Force soldiers duck - as a grenade flew past them and exploded near Speer, who was at the rear of the group and not wearing his helmet.[20][41]

When the dust cleared, OC-1 saw Khadr crouched on his knees facing away from the action and wounded by shrapnel that had just permanently blinded his left eye,[29] and shot him twice in the back.[28]

(Note that they shot him twice in the back after he was severely wounded by the bombs too. Classy.)

But I'm not sure why it matters -- the US military documents released in Feb 08 show no one saw Omar throw a grenade and at least one officer says he explicitly did not. This is why Omar has been in gitmo for 6 years without a trial, even though he's the only prisoner asking for one.

I'd ask you to quote anything backing your delusions up, but then we both know you can't because they are delusions.

Perhaps you should consider reading the thread, as this was done.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I am not Felch, I haven't said anything even remotely similar to him

I'd wager you've never even dropped acid.

Try it sometime. You'll never be the same.

Oh and Asher, me not caring about tortured children doesn't make me a loser, just honest. What made me a loser was getting my Geneva Conventions all buggered.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Asher


There's a brief summary on wikipedia of the firefight.

But I'm not sure why it matters

It matters because eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. It's the reason why all these people get convicted of crimes and then exonerated on DNA - some eye witness wrongly fingered them.

I have trouble with that officer. I just don't believe that somebody could really be that sure of something in a firefight. You'd think he'd be less focused on one kid and more broadly paying attention to the fight and his men, especially because he was an officer. If it were structured, then I'm inclined to believe him, since he'd have an easier time keeping track of things. That's all.

All that being said, I trust that the kid didn't throw the grenade. As I said already, I trust my Army.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Felch


It matters because eye witness accounts are notoriously unreliable. It's the reason why all these people get convicted of crimes and then exonerated on DNA - some eye witness wrongly fingered them.

I have trouble with that officer. I just don't believe that somebody could really be that sure of something in a firefight. You'd think he'd be less focused on one kid and more broadly paying attention to the fight and his men, especially because he was an officer. If it were structured, then I'm inclined to believe him, since he'd have an easier time keeping track of things. That's all.

All that being said, I trust that the kid didn't throw the grenade. As I said already, I trust my Army.

You're absolutely right that eyewitness accounts are unreliable.

An F-18 came by and dropped two 500 lbs bombs on the house Khadr and 4 others were in.
3 of them died, Khadr and another lived.

The special forces team then went into the house expecting no survivors:

Unaware that Khadr and a militant had survived the bombing, the ground forces sent a team consisting of OC-1, Silver, Speer and three Delta Force soldiers[39] through a hole in the south side of the wall, while at least two other American troops continued throwing grenades into the compound.[40]

The team began picking their way over the bodies of dead animals and three fighters.[20] According to Silver's 2007 telling of the story, he then heard a sound "like a gunshot", and saw the three Delta Force soldiers duck - as a grenade flew past them and exploded near Speer, who was at the rear of the group and not wearing his helmet.[20][41]

When the dust cleared, OC-1 saw Khadr crouched on his knees facing away from the action and wounded by shrapnel that had just permanently blinded his left eye,[29] and shot him twice in the back.[28]

(Note that they shot him twice in the back after he was severely wounded by the bombs too. Classy. You're right that the US isn't a bunch of butchers...)

[Felch]

Originally posted by Asher
(Note that they shot him twice in the back after he was severely wounded by the bombs too. Classy.)

Off topic, but funny in a sick way. My buddy loves the silenced P90 in CoD4, and calls it "The Backshooter 9000." And his motto is, "The deadliest place to shoot someone isn't the head - it's the lower back."

Now go ahead and do your mandatory talk about how bloodthirsty Americans are.

[Asher]

It doesn't need to be said, thanks to this thread.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Felch
Lighten up, Imran. There's no reason atrocities can't be fun.

Ouch.

Besides, our "moral beacon" got its start butchering natives and enslaving blacks for about a hundred years. And then we went on to treat those natives and blacks like crap, until we got bored and firebombed Dresden, nuked Hiroshima, and Rapalmedâ„¢ our way through Vietnam.

Good point. But as Imran said, we should at least try to rise above our past misdeeds. And our past hasn't been all bad.

Hell, being the 1st nation in the modern era to found a functional democracy that many have emulated and more seek to emulate trumps most of the bs we've done. Too bad Cheney, etc. are working so hard to dismantle it.

@ Pat: RTFT (again)

[Space05us]

I hereby declare Asher the loser of this threadi.

[Theben]

?? I hereby declare you unable to comprehend English.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Thankfully both Senator McCain and Senator Obama have said they'll close the blot on the US that is the Gitmo detention facility.

McCain
Obama

[Ramo]

Let's start with throwing a grenade at US troops, hm? If he is a POW, is there any reason we're supposed to release him after N years?

As Asher pointed out, the "throwing a grenade at US troops" thing looks pretty dubious. And obviously he's not classified as a POW. If he were a POW, we'd typically be obliged to release him after formal hostilities end (i.e. as stipulated in a peace treaty). Importantly, Article 5 of the Geneva Conventions refers to a competent tribunal (and, again, the CSRT do not qualify) to adjudicate his status should any doubt arise.

[Theben]

I think we've already made a convincing point that Felch and Patty were wrong.

Although your ex-FBI story reminded me of a tidbit I learned in college. The japanese prisoners of the the U.S. had been instructed by their leadership that being captured by the U.S. would be a fate worse than death. Most if not all detainees were shocked when they found out they would live, and be well-treated. It also justified the harsh treatment given to U.S. prisoners, and was why civilians would rather leap to their deaths than be caught by U.S. soldiers.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Theben
I think we've already made a convincing point that Felch and Patty were wrong.

Wrongness courses through my veins.

[Ramo]

I think we've already made a convincing point that Felch and Patty were wrong.

I was correcting Kuci, not Felch/Patty.