How would you balance the US budget?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Deity Dude
Like I said before this would totally eliminate family farms and business. So that raises the next point. It always amazes me how easy it is for people to think the government can take $1mm and do better for society than a farmer or small businesman.

Small farms are really a very small part of the total amount of farms. They could disappear and we wouldn't really notice.

Businesses, couldn't they just get one of the small business loans which are all over the place?

JM

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I consider giving money to charities to be as good as giving it in taxes. So I have nor problem if they want to give money away instead of give it to the government upon death.

JM

I don't think you understand the econmivs of it, especially with a family farm. Let's say the farm islocated about 50 miles out side of the city. The land becomes valued the same as like property in the area. 50 acres and you are talking at least 2.5 million. Probably another $1 million in equipment and buildings. And lets say $500K in livestock. But no cash.

The son want to run the farm. By your formula the son would have to come up with $2,610,000 cash for a family business that is asset rich but probably only generates enough profit to pay the bills. That is one of the reasons precisely why family farms are dying out.

Another is the property taxes get reassessed when ownership changes. So if that farm was about in the 40's by a WWII vet the land probaly went for around $500-$1000/acre.

So on top of having to come up with $2,610,000 cash under your scenario, his property taxes would also go 50 to 100 times what he pays now. So lets the property tax rate is 4%. That means his taxes would go up in one year around $100,000. Which could be more than he earns Why did it go up? Not because he uses any more services from the local government. On the contrary, if he sells to pay the taxes a developer will put in new houses which means roads, sewage, police, schools etc.

[Dinner]

To aid the discussion I'll provide the following graphs which are from 2005 but should still be in the ball park for our discussion.

This is the big picture break down of the Federal Budget.


Social Security and Medicare are non discretionary spending, meaning the government has to pay these no matter what, and just about everything else is discretionary spending meaning politicians can cut it if they like.

Here is the break down of discretionary spending.


Since I don't think it would be politically feasible to cut Social Security or Medicare I would target cuts from the discretionary budget.

[Jon Miller]

When have I or anyone else discussed property taxes as part of the federal tax?

The only personal tax I am applying to living people is the income tax.

JM

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Deity Dude


I don't think you understand the econmivs of it, especially with a family farm. Let's say the farm islocated about 50 miles out side of the city. The land becomes valued the same as like property in the area. 50 acres and you are talking at least 2.5 million. Probably another $1 million in equipment and buildings. And lets say $500K in livestock. But no cash.

The son want to run the farm. By your formula the son would have to come up with $2,610,000 cash for a family business that is asset rich but probably only generates enough profit to pay the bills. That is one of the reasons precisely why family farms are dying out.

Another is the property taxes get reassessed when ownership changes. So if that farm was about in the 40's by a WWII vet the land probaly went for around $500-$1000/acre.

So on top of having to come up with $2,610,000 cash under your scenario, his property taxes would also go 50 to 100 times what he pays now. So lets the property tax rate is 4%. That means his taxes would go up in one year around $100,000. Which could be more than he earns Why did it go up? Not because he uses any more services from the local government. On the contrary, if he sells to pay the taxes a developer will put in new houses which means roads, sewage, police, schools etc.

*cough*

Originally posted by Darius871
Suppose hypothetically that the tax is strictly limited to residential or recreational realty, chattels, and liquid assets, with an explicit exemption of anything reaching any reasonable definition of "small business," whether corporate or non-corporate. What would be your argument then?

[Dinner]

Oh man. I guess it has changed a bit in 3 years. BTW the total budget is $2.9 trillion and we are currently running a $410 billion deficit per year.



Where do we find the $410 billion? What do we cut or what taxes do we raise?

[Elok]

My one idea for fixing the budget deficit is still the same: death to basically all farm subsidies. Other than that, I've got bupkus. Oh, also, whichever one is the "War on Terror" (there are too damned many similar shades on that pie), that can probably be reduced.

[Jon Miller]

So far most are suggesting raising taxes for the rich and cutting down a bit on the military.

JM

[LordShiva]

Re: How would you balance the US budget?

I wouldn't.

[Deity Dude]

I find the groupings rather arbitrary. Isn't "global war on terror" just a part of National Defense, Homeland Security and Department of Justice. That would be like having a category for "war on drugs' or "war on poverty" which are just programs/concepts that other departments spend their budgets on.

What exactly are "Other On-Line" and "Other Off-Line" expenditures. Is that nother way of saying earmarks or pork. Also what exactly is other mandatory spending.

But back to the question it looks like about 14% has to be cut.

It would be nice to see a sources of revenue graph as well. For example Social Security uses 21% - how much does it collect?

[Deity Dude]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
So far most are suggesting raising taxes for the rich and cutting down a bit on the military.

JM

Actually, descendents of the asset-rich.

[Space05us]

Originally posted by Elok
(there are too damned many similar shades on that pie)

The list goes down and clockwise on the chart.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Deity Dude


Actually, descendents of the asset-rich.

Nah, I increased taxes on straight up income (of the wealthy) also. I think others did as well.

JM

[Zkribbler]

Can't be done. At least, not in the short run. Not while heading into a major recession.

The best we can hope for is not to increase the rate at which we're borrowing. That means re-instituting paygo.


My best effort at this point:

I'd let the Bush tax cuts expire for those persons making over $200,000/year.

Try to reduce military spending by cutting back in Iraq -- but this effort won't be very effective because a lot of troops are going to have to be redeployed to Afghanistan and a lot of equipment has to be repaired, replaced and/or updated. Plus the VA needs some major money.

[asleepathewheel]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Jon Miller
Introduce the following scheme. These are for total income from all income sources.
0% tax on those that make under the federal average income (40k roughly).
30% tax on the next 100k. (40k-140k)
35% tax on everything above that. (140k+)

/QUOTE]

Jesus


guy making 39k keeps it all.
guy making 42k is taxed how much? I'll decline that raise Mr. Bob.


I'll give you a 35% tax rate if you forgive the 100k my wife and I have in student loans that got us the education to rise above that 140k threshold. Still not a good deal on our end, but at least then I don't feel as screwed.