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The sad shape of US military contracting.

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  • The sad shape of US military contracting.

    Some of you may remember a few months ago when DanS made a thread about Airbus & Northrop-Grumman beat Boeing to get a $35 billion contract to build in air refueling planes for the US Air Force. DanS was right in saying that Airbus & Northrop-Grumman simply delivered a good product for less money and so they deserved to win. Especially since Boeing was arrogantly demanding billions more just because it thought the Air Force would always go with the domestic builder instead of the foreign builder.

    Even worse was back in 2003 several Boeing executives were found guilty of trying to bribe officials to secure this monster contract. After being caught bribing people and losing a fair bidding contest you'd think this would be over BUT NO! It turns out Boeing really wants this contract bad and has greased the palms of any politician who would take their money and now, suddenly, the Defense Department is reversing course and is set to give this giant contract to Boeing instead of Airbus. **** Boeing. **** them straight to hell.

    U.S. reopening $35 billion aerial tanker bidding
    Secretary of Defense's office will directly oversee process, not Air Force

    WASHINGTON - Boeing Co. and Northrop Grumman Corp. will submit new offers for a disputed $35 billion Air Force tanker contract, and the Pentagon will pick a winner by the end of the year.

    Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Wednesday that his office — not the Air Force — will oversee the competition between Boeing and the team of Northrop and Airbus parent European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co.

    The plan, which hands control to the Pentagon acquisition chief John Young and sets up a dedicated source-selection committee, shows that senior civilians at the Defense Department have lost confidence in the Air Force's ability to manage the contract.

    "I think it's better," said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash. "No one has any faith in the Air Force."

    The Government Accountability Office last month detailed "significant errors" the Air Force made in the original award to the Northrop team. The GAO said Chicago-based Boeing might have won the contract had the service not made mistakes in evaluating the bids.

    The Pentagon will conduct a limited rebid that looks only at eight issues where government auditors found problems in the initial process, Gates said.

    Sen. Richard Shelby, a Republican from Alabama, where the Northrop Grumman team would assemble its plane, called it "the best of all options" that would address the "minor procedural flaws" the GAO cited.

    Lawmakers from Washington state and Kansas, where Boeing employs thousands of workers, have put considerable pressure on the Air Force to reopen the bidding process and cancel the contract with the Northrop team.

    The deal has emerged as the latest black eye for the service, which is trying to rebuild a tattered reputation after a procurement scandal in 2003 sent a top Air Force acquisition official to prison for conflict of interest and led to the collapse of an earlier tanker contract with Boeing.

    The Air Force in February selected the Northrop team to replace 179 Eisenhower-era aerial refueling planes. Boeing filed its protest in March.

    The deal — one of the largest in Pentagon history — is the first of three contracts worth up to $100 billion to replace nearly 600 refueling tankers over the next 30 years.

    Shares of Boeing added 61 cents to $66.53 in afternoon trading, while Los Angeles-based Northrop Grumman fell 10 cents to $66.07.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    Basically this one has it all. Protectionism, government corruption, shady backroom deals, and international drama.

    Of course the reason Gates has said his office and not the Air Force will decide this contract is because the Air Force actually decided based on the airbus costing billions less and not how much money Boeing gave Congressmen. It's a joke. A transparent joke.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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    • #3
      Both Airbus and Boeing grease the politicians. It's a cluster****.

      It'll keep going back and forth until they have no planes.

      Of course the reason Gates has said his office and not the Air Force will decide this contract is because the Air Force actually decided based on the airbus costing billions less and not how much money Boeing gave Congressmen. It's a joke. A transparent joke.


      Get ****ed. The Air Force is clearly simply incompetent, they go with whoever gave the most money. If there's systematic issues, then it should go to someone else.

      I'm no fan of the administration but you're just being a dick here.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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      • #4
        Re: The sad shape of US military contracting.

        "I think it's better," said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash. "No one has any faith in the Air Force."
        Yeah, those guys at the Air Force, what to they know about buying planes?
        "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
        -Joan Robinson

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        • #5
          Are there any details as to what the Air Force ****ed up on? At first I want to say the AF should handle the deal since they're the ones that are buying and playing with the toy, but what did they have to **** up to get the privilege of picking cheerleading barbie over lawyer barbie taken away?
          Last edited by Space05us; July 9, 2008, 20:38.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mr Snuggles

            Get ****ed. The Air Force is clearly simply incompetent, they go with whoever gave the most money. If there's systematic issues, then it should go to someone else.

            I'm no fan of the administration but you're just being a dick here.
            I'm not just blaming the administration. I'm also blaming the Congressmen involved like the Democrat from Washington who's finger prints are all over this. Bottom line both planes work well for the intended purpose and the Airbus costs billions less. We should go with the cheaper plane.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #7
              What's the cost per plane over 20-30 years?
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Oerdin


                I'm not just blaming the administration. I'm also blaming the Congressmen involved like the Democrat from Washington who's finger prints are all over this. Bottom line both planes work well for the intended purpose and the Airbus costs billions less. We should go with the cheaper plane.
                The Day it was officially awarded I remember seeing the Senators from Washington whining about how the USAF didn't take "jobs" into consideration when they made their decision. One of the Congressmen said that it was a Republican conspiracy(because McCain's investigation killed the boeing deal, and Northrup Plant would have been opened up in a Red state).

                Raytheon did the same when L3 was awarded the LCA aircraft contact as well.
                Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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                • #9
                  Disclaimer: Lonestar is a Northrop shareholder.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                  • #10
                    Yep, as long as military projects are treated like pork to be doled out, you're going to have massive cost overruns and whatnot.
                    "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                    -Joan Robinson

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                    • #11
                      There's a very famous very important person who once made a very insightful speech about the military-industrial complex...his wisdom was wasted in the US.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mr Snuggles
                        Disclaimer: Lonestar is a Northrop shareholder.
                        I'm also an L3 shareholder.
                        Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lonestar

                          Raytheon did the same when L3 was awarded the LCA aircraft contact as well.
                          What I found interesting about that contract is neither Raytheon nor L3 had ever built a military cargo airplane before. They both basically were selling someone else's plane.
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                          • #14
                            When're you going to provide facts to back up your assertion, Oerdin?
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Oerdin


                              What I found interesting about that contract is neither Raytheon nor L3 had ever built a military cargo airplane before. They both basically were selling someone else's plane.
                              So was Northrup(In the Tanker instance).
                              Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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