Police Retribution

[Lorizael]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Police Retribution

Originally posted by Felch
I don't see why you so closely tie the two together. It's certainly not something that people have always done throughout history.

I don't. My own ideas are very different, but my own ideas are well-defined and structured. On the other hand, I know nothing about yours.

Easy, quick example - Jim Crow. There were laws on the books that were unjust. The laws are written by democratically elected legislatures, but they did not serve the purpose of creating a just society.

iirc, Jim Crow laws were ruled unconstitutional, which means that they were unjust within the context of the rule of law upon which this society is based.

Justice is a fundamental right of all people. The law is an attempt at providing justice to the people. Our modern legal system is very good at that, but it isn't perfect.

Without specifically defining justice, you cannot separate it from law.

[Felch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Police Retribution

Originally posted by Lorizael
iirc, Jim Crow laws were ruled unconstitutional, which means that they were unjust within the context of the rule of law upon which this society is based.

Plessy v. Ferguson was the SCOTUS case that rendered them Constitutional for over half a century, so yes actually, they were legal. They were unjust, but the law said that they were okay.

Without specifically defining justice, you cannot separate it from law.

I'm using definition # 3 -- Justice is the ideal, the goal. The law is the method. Does that compute?

[Lorizael]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Police Retribution

Originally posted by Felch
Plessy v. Ferguson was the SCOTUS case that rendered them Constitutional for over half a century, so yes actually, they were legal. They were unjust, but the law said that they were okay.

They felt unjust to those that disagreed with the Supreme Court's decision, but I'm willing to bet that most people couldn't articulate why these laws were unjust in a reasoned, consistent manner. I'm also willing to bet that those who agreed with the decision didn't feel the laws were unjust. I wonder why that is?

I'm using definition # 3 -- Justice is the ideal, the goal. The law is the method. Does that compute?

Conformity to truth, fact, or reason? Given the rest of what you said there, I think you mean 2a, which mentions an "ideal."

But that's not good enough. An ideal of what? You need a specific meaning for justice, not just a feeling, or you can't use it in debate.

This is a major threadjack, though, which was kind of my point. There are some pretty well-grounded ideas about what justice is, especially as it pertains to law, but until you actually describe your ideas of justice - outside of dictionary definitions - you can't say that one law is just or unjust and have that be meaningful in any way.

[Felch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Police Retribution

Originally posted by Lorizael
They felt unjust to those that disagreed with the Supreme Court's decision, but I'm willing to bet that most people couldn't articulate why these laws were unjust in a reasoned, consistent manner. I'm also willing to bet that those who agreed with the decision didn't feel the laws were unjust. I wonder why that is?

Conformity to truth, fact, or reason? Given the rest of what you said there, I think you mean 2a, which mentions an "ideal."

But that's not good enough. An ideal of what? You need a specific meaning for justice, not just a feeling, or you can't use it in debate.

This is a major threadjack, though, which was kind of my point. There are some pretty well-grounded ideas about what justice is, especially as it pertains to law, but until you actually describe your ideas of justice - outside of dictionary definitions - you can't say that one law is just or unjust and have that be meaningful in any way.

This is the kind of weak minded "everybody's point of view should be respected" horse**** that leads me to despair for humanity in general and Western civilization in particular.

Plessy v. Fergussen "felt" unjust? Are you Wiglaf's DL? It remains one of the great black marks on the USA. It was a terrible decision made by vile evil men. The fact that you're trying to justify it shows me to what extent you've warped your own sense of right and wrong to justify anything.

How about Dred Scott v. Sandford, the case that said blacks weren't equal to white human beings after all. Is that just? It was the law after all.

Sometimes the law gets it wrong. That's all I'm saying. When the law gets it wrong, when a law perverts justice instead of serving it, decent people are obligated to ignore the law, and seek justice by other means.

Some people are wrong. Some people are bad. As long as fools like you keep throwing up legalistic smoke screens to protect them, they'll get away with it.

Right here, right now, in the State of Maryland, some punk cop (or other official) committed murder. If the courts don't get him, the good people of the state need to take matters into their own hands.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Donegeal
Hi all! What a suprize, me posting here?

At this point, there is nothing to defend as everything so far is speculation.

Could it have been the guards? Yes.

Could it have been the supervisiors? Yes.

(and here is the key that makes all this talk of police retribution mearly speculation)
Could it have been suicide? Yes.

Or maybe another one of the gangbangers in there, who got a set of keys of the Bloods mole they caught among the guards per the story above. Not so likely in the isoation section, but possible if ther are more gang corrupted guards than the ones they have caught.

Or maybe another one of the gangbangers in there, who got a set of keys of the Bloods mole they caught among the guards per the story above. Not so likely in the isoation section, but possible if ther are more gang corrupted guards than the ones they have caught.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
Or maybe another one of the gangbangers in there, who got a set of keys of the Bloods mole they caught among the guards per the story above. Not so likely in the isoation section, but possible if ther are more gang corrupted guards than the ones they have caught.

Prison gangs usually don't go after cop killers, but they're a handy red herring for whoever does go to trial on this.

[Lefty Scaevola]

If it was a gang thing, it would have been on acount of somehing else he had been up to, but anyway, I am not betting on another inmate nor on suicide.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Felch
This is the kind of weak minded "everybody's point of view should be respected" horse**** that leads me to despair for humanity in general and Western civilization in particular.

You misunderstand me. I think all points of view besides mine are completely and utterly worthless. But I do think they're equally worthless.

Re the rest of your rant: Unless you define right and wrong, just and unjust, your argument is completely worthless, too. You can talk about the law getting it wrong and decent people seeking justice and all that, but it doesn't mean a thing unless you can construct a consistent argument for what all that means.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Lorizael
You misunderstand me. I think all point's of view besides mine are completely and utterly worthless. But I do think they're equally worthless.

Well, as long as you can dig deep down in your heart and find room to judge people and think that they're a bunch of idiots, I guess you can't be all that bad. back at ya

Re the rest of your rant: Unless you define right and wrong, just and unjust, your argument is completely worthless, too. You can talk about the law getting it wrong and decent people seeking justice and all that, but it doesn't mean a thing unless you can construct a consistent argument for what all that means.

Without a threadjack, all I can do is say that my idea of justice is not the same as the lawmakers. It's rooted in personal responsibility, and individual freedom. But it's not worth going into too much detail. I just wanted to be clear that the law != justice.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Felch
Without a threadjack...

How am I always right? Damn I'm good.

[Krill]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Police Retribution

Originally posted by Felch


This is the kind of weak minded "everybody's point of view should be respected" horse**** that leads me to despair for humanity in general and Western civilization in particular.

Plessy v. Fergussen "felt" unjust? Are you Wiglaf's DL? It remains one of the great black marks on the USA. It was a terrible decision made by vile evil men. The fact that you're trying to justify it shows me to what extent you've warped your own sense of right and wrong to justify anything.

How about Dred Scott v. Sandford, the case that said blacks weren't equal to white human beings after all. Is that just? It was the law after all.

Sometimes the law gets it wrong. That's all I'm saying. When the law gets it wrong, when a law perverts justice instead of serving it, decent people are obligated to ignore the law, and seek justice by other means.

Some people are wrong. Some people are bad. As long as fools like you keep throwing up legalistic smoke screens to protect them, they'll get away with it.

Right here, right now, in the State of Maryland, some punk cop (or other official) committed murder. If the courts don't get him, the good people of the state need to take matters into their own hands.

Vigilantism

[b etor]

Originally posted by onodera
Don't kill policemen is what I think.

Good idea.

[chequita guevara]

Cop killer! yeah!

I got my black shirt on.
I got my black gloves on.
I got my ski mask on.
This ****s been too long.
I got my twelve gauge sawed off.
I got my headlights turned off.
Im bout to bust some shots off.
Im bout to dust some cops off.

Im a cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, **** police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your familys grieving,
(**** em!)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even, ha ha.

I got my brain on hype.
Tonightll be your night.
I got this long-assed knife.
And your neck looks just right.
My adrenalines pumpin.
I got my stereo bumpin.
Im bout to kill me somethin.
A pig stopped me for nuthin!

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, **** police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your mommas grieving,
(**** her!)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even, yeah!

Die, die, die pig, die!

**** the police!
**** the police!
**** the police!
**** the police!

**** the police!
**** the police!
**** the police!
**** the police!
Yeah!

Cop killer, better you than me.
Im a cop killer, **** police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your familys grieving,
(**** em!)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even, ha ha ha ha, yeah!

**** the police!
**** the police!
**** the police!
**** the police!

**** the police!
**** the police!
**** the police!
**** the police!
Break it down.

**** the police, yeah!
**** the police, for darryl gates.
**** the police, for rodney king.
**** the police, for my dead homies.
**** the police, for your freedom.
**** the police, dont be a *****.
**** the police, have some mutha****in courage.
**** the police, sing along.

Cop killer!
Cop killer!
Cop killer!
Cop killer!

Cop killer! whaddyou wanna be when you grow up?
Cop killer! good choice.
Cop killer! Im a mutha****in
Cop killer!

Cop killer, better you than me.
Cop killer, **** police brutality!
Cop killer, I know your mommas grieving,
(**** her!)
Cop killer, but tonight we get even!

[Felch]

Amen Chegitz!

Let's start with the Cuban secret police.

[chequita guevara]

Cuba doesn't have secret police. Of course, if they did, how would we know? They're secret!

They have community watch programs. It's not the government you have to watch out for, it's all your neighbors.