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Air France sues airport because they can't land their planes

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  • Air France sues airport because they can't land their planes



    Air France sues over crash

    Says Pearson runway lacks safety margins
    Jun 04, 2008 04:30 AM
    Bruce Campion-Smith
    Ottawa Bureau Chief

    OTTAWA–Pearson International Airport's newest runway lacks proper safety margins and falls short of international standards, Air France alleges in a lawsuit following the dramatic 2005 crash of one of its jets at the site.

    The French airline and its insurers are suing the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, which runs Pearson, the federal government and the country's air-traffic control agency for some $180 million, charging they all cut corners that contributed to the crash of its Airbus A340 jet.

    The airline takes aim at the airport operator, saying the design of Runway 24 Left – which ends at a steep ravine – failed to ensure there was an "adequate margin of safety for aircraft in the event of an overrun event."

    It also says in a statement of claim filed with the Ontario Superior Court of Justice that "GTAA failed to provide a safe environment for the conduct of civil air operations."

    Flight 358 arriving from Paris was battered by a violent thunderstorm just as it touched down on Aug. 2, 2005. Going too fast, it ran off the rain-slicked runway and into the ravine, where it broke apart and burst into flames.

    All 297 passengers and 12 crew survived the accident but 33 people were taken to hospital – two crew members and 10 passengers were admitted to hospital with serious injuries. Many more have struggled with memories of the incident.

    In its lawsuit, Air France pins the blame on the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, Nav Canada and the individual air-traffic controllers who guided the big jet to the airport in the fateful minutes before the crash.

    "The overrun and the consequent injuries to persons and damage to property were caused solely by the negligence of the defendants," the statement of claim says.

    While Runway 24 Left was only opened in 2002, an adjacent runway was the site of a fatal accident in 1978 when an Air Canada jet ran into the steep ravine leading down to Etobicoke Creek, killing two people and seriously injuring 47 others.

    An investigation into that accident found the "ravine beyond the overrun area left no additional margin for error and contributed to a high casualty rate."

    Air France says Transport Canada was "negligent" by not implementing the recommendations of a coroner's inquest into the 1978 crash that urged the creation of a 300-metre safety area to give aircraft more room to stop after landing.

    It also charges that the airport failed to install an apron of special concrete designed to quickly slow aircraft unable to stop on the runway. And it notes that the runway lacks grooves to help carry away rainwater and improve braking.

    Transport Canada estimates the potential penalties in the lawsuit at $180 million, plus any damages awarded passengers in an ongoing class-action suit, according to a department briefing note obtained by an Ottawa researcher under Access to Information.

    But in its defence, the federal government says Air France knew that runway runoff areas "are not standard in Canada" and noted the airline operated from Pearson for "many years" before the crash.

    "Air France has continued to operate flights including those by A340 aircraft on Runway 24L since the said incident," the government says in its statement of defence.

    Federal officials point the finger at the pilots, saying the crew failed to calculate a safe landing distance, despite reports thunderstorms were expected at the time of landing.

    An investigation by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada concluded last December that the jet touched down almost halfway down the 2,740-metre runway and was still travelling at almost 150 km/h when it went off the runway.

    Officials with both the GTAA and Nav Canada refused to comment yesterday on the lawsuit. However, both insisted that their respective agencies are running a safe operation at Pearson.
    This is the best part:
    "The overrun and the consequent injuries to persons and damage to property were caused solely by the negligence of the defendants," the statement of claim says.


    It seems to me like it might have more to do with the fact that the pilot who landed a very heavy, very large plane more than halfway down a very wet runway than the fact that the runway -- when not on the runway -- isn't perfectly flat.

    Airplanes are not meant to go offroading...

    Dotted line is how you are supposed to land, red is how Air France decided to land on a wet runway:
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    Ahh, the typical French response. It isn't that we designed a piece of **** airplane which is unsuitable for 90% plus of the world's airports or that ourr pilot was a piece of crap who totally blew the landing but instead it is the airport's fault.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's not even the airplane design (though the injured passengers were injured cause one of the slides failed to deploy properly). It's just pilot error.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • #4
        Reading comprehension is good. Reread please.

        BTW the first part was a dig at Airbus's new super jumbo which can't land at most airports.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #5
          It is hard to argue the runway isn't long enough when the pilots only used half of it.
          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Oerdin
            Reading comprehension is good. Reread please.
            I don't care for your stealth edit nor your lying about it after the fact. You wonder why I have it out for you.

            BTW the first part was a dig at Airbus's new super jumbo which can't land at most airports.
            The same was true for the 747 when it launched. It's a very stupid criticism considering how much valid criticism is available for both France and Airbus.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • #7
              I think GTAA should counter sue for the expense and inconvenience caused by the idiot Air France pilots.
              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wezil
                I think GTAA should counter sue for the expense and inconvenience caused by the idiot Air France pilots.
                If they don't, I should.

                The crash ****ed up one of my drives to Waterloo due to the proximity to the 401, and on top of that the fact that AIR FRANCE is suing the airport because of this has angered me so much I am emotionally distressed.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment


                • #9
                  I was stuck in that mess as well.
                  "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Asher

                    I don't care for your stealth edit nor your lying about it after the fact. You wonder why I have it out for you.
                    The minor edit was completed before you even posted. Get the facts straight please. Good to see you finally admit your stalking and harassment though.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oerdin


                      The minor edit was completed before you even posted. Get the facts straight please. Good to see you finally admit your stalking and harassment though.
                      I have it out for you but I'm not stalking you. Jesus Christ Oerdin, whose thread is this?

                      And no, the edit was obviously NOT completed when I posted that since I posted it seconds after you did.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Asher - Oerdin subforum
                        Blah

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just ban Oerdin already. He's too slimey.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BeBro
                            Asher - Oerdin subforum
                            I suggest the history sub-forum. It might as well be used for something.
                            "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                            "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wezil
                              I think GTAA should counter sue for the expense and inconvenience caused by the idiot Air France pilots.
                              I think they should sue just for the general inconvenience caused by having French people nearby.

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