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There's an ambiguity since he was talking about stopping Iran, which he pointedly called the "world's leading sponsor of terror," (and therefore negotiating with them would be "appeasement") from getting nukes a few sentences later. But I would say that there's at least plausible deniability that he was not referring to both Hamas and Iran. Though more importantly, his equation of negotiations with Hamas as equivalent to appeasing Nazi Germany is total nonsense.
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"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon -
I still don't get Obama's defense of himself though from the percieved slight. "George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists (and radicals I presume as well because that was in the statement as well),
He actually has argued for that and even made it a plank in his campaign.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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He was presumably talking about negotiations with Hamas."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Why does he view Hamas as being worse than Iran (a sponsor of terrorism including Hamas), Cuba, etc?I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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What makes Iran and Cuba worse than Saudi Arabia?
Whatever state is the "worst" is both an ambiguous criteria and not the relevant one in making these kinds of decisions.
He presumably wants to shut out Hamas because he doesn't think it's necessary to deal with them to achieve a permanent peace. Perhaps he thinks that it's feasible to completely marginalize them in the short term. I obviously disagree."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I was just curious what makes the sponsor of a terrorist group worthy of direct and personal talks with the POTUS without preconditions and the group the fund and train something to be frozen out until they do what we say in Obama's view. Logically it doesn't really make sense to me.Originally posted by Ramo
Whatever state is the "worst" is both an ambiguous criteria and not the relevant one in making these kinds of decisions.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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Good that McCain is hammering away on Obama regarding foreign policy and Bush is joining in on the fun.
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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It has to do with permanence and politics. Gazastan is probably not going to be viable as an independent state in the long term, and will probably be reunited with the West Bank under a non-Hamas gov't at some point. I think talking with Hamas is the best way to get there, but others do not. Iran, obviously, is here to stay for a while. And dealing with Hamas is politically radioactive.
If you have issues with consistency, can you explain why McCain talked about negotiations with Hamas, reversed his position, and then insinuated that Obama was in bed with them despite holding the same position that he has?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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The Hamas endorsement of Obama probably helped in that regard. He ME policy advisor meeting with them as well also likely didn't help matters.Originally posted by Ramo
If you have issues with consistency, can you explain why McCain talked about negotiations with Hamas, reversed his position, and then insinuated that Obama was in bed with them despite holding the same position that he has?I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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The Hamas endorsement of Obama probably helped in that regard.
You're saying that if a member of AQ sent out a video endorsing McCain, it'd be fair game for Obama to emphasize it?
I really can't believe that any thinking person thinks that this isn't the worst kind of gutter politics.
He ME policy advisor meeting with them as well also likely didn't help matters.
He met with Hamas in an entirely different capacity, and is hardly a high profile advisor (and he was subsequently fired). And if we're talking about members in the campaign, McCain has a lot more to answer for (i.e. the guy who McCain chose to run the RNC actually lobbied for the Burmese junta).
And I'm still wondering how he can criticize Obama when he himself endorsed talking with Hamas after they won the election."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I only read that McCain had commented on the mere fact that Hamas' spokesman said they'd prefer an Obama victory; when was he quoted actually criticizing the possibility of discussions with Hamas at some point?Originally posted by Ramo
And I'm still wondering how he can criticize Obama when he himself endorsed talking with Hamas after they won the election.
(I'm not saying McCain didn't or wouldn't make that criticism... just curious as I hadn't read that part yet.)Comment
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May 16, 2008
Categories: McCain
McCain camp pushes back on Rubin/Hamas
A clarification and then the attack from John McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds:
"There should be no confusion, John McCain has always believed that serious engagement would require mandatory conditions and Hamas must change itself fundamentally — renounce violence, abandon its goal of eradicating Israel and accept a two state solution. John McCain’s position is clear and has always been clear, the President of the United States should not unconditionally meet with leaders of Iran, Hamas or Hezbollah. Barack Obama has made his position equally clear, and has pledged to meet unconditionally with Iran’s leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the leaders of other rogue regimes, which shows incredibly dangerous and weak judgment.""Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Originally posted by Darius871
I only read that McCain had commented on the mere fact that Hamas' spokesman said they'd prefer an Obama victory; when was he quoted actually criticizing the possibility of discussions with Hamas at some point?
(I'm not saying McCain didn't or wouldn't make that criticism... just curious as I hadn't read that part yet.)Comment
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I have no idea what you requoted your post. Are you saying that McCain's spokesman is lying about McCain's position?"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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To be clear, the current (public) position for basically the entire American political class is that Hamas has to meet a set of pre-conditions before America can engage them. That includes Bush, McCain, Clinton, and Obama. I think that's a bad position, and I wouldn't be surprised if much of this class privately disagrees with it.
What McCain did was was smear Obama by implying that he's pro-Hamas (and you'd have to be seriously dense to consider this an innocent comment), when he in fact has the same public position as McCain on relations with Hamas. Yet earlier McCain appeared to have endorsed engagement with Hamas, but in the wrong company, completing the dirt & hypocrisy circle."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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