Bankrupting America

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Spiffor

More accurately, each one is trying to make the best of the situation for his own little ass, without thinking one moment about society in general. Invisible hand at work

Trying to make it worse was not a general statement. It was specifically in regards to the value of the dollar. They are actively trying to devalue the dollar.

[Spiffor]

Well, the US banking system created money like there was no tomorrow for about a decade. Once reality bites back (as it does now), it's hard to avoid devaluation. And devaluation a good way to reduce your trade imbalance and foreign debt, so it's a win for the US, and a loss for the other countries dumb enough either to 1. have put all their eggs in the same basket, or 2. continue disciplined monetary policies in this time of monetary anarchy (I'm looking at you, EU)

[Arrian]

Only difference is the corporations get bailouts, little guys get rate hikes (from said corporations).

When I say bankrupting America, I don't mean bankrupting the little guys with too much debt.

I know. You mean the entire country, and I agree with you.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

There will be a credit card crisis. It's just a matter of when. What we ought to do is just all of us run up as much dept as we can and not pay them a ****ing cent. Those ****ers.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I don't see how it is different from debit cards, at least over here, they're just as convenient, but you get to spend what you do have, not what you should earn

Debit cards generally don't have the same protections as credit cards over here.

Certain credit cards also have bonuses when you use them, like money back or airline miles.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

done

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Patroklos

Ohhhhh, fun with numbers!!!

Well Oerdin, it may be the #1 cause, but what percetage of the whole does it make? A majority?

Here's a Harvard study which examined the reasons for bankruptcy in the US and they found that 50% of the people who do declare bankruptcy do so because they can't pay medical bills.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html

But I know your line. They were irresponsible and should have just died rather then seek medical care.

Most of these people actually had health insurance but most affordable health insurance in the US has a cap, often a very low cap, and if you have a big disease (like cancer) then you almost always go over the cap and are liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most people, even responsible people can't pay the money and have to declare bankruptcy.

[Spiffor]

It seems that problem lies much more with your healthcare than with your credit policy. Did any of the major candidates say their open support for socialized healthcare?

[Kidlicious]

Spiffor,

Credit cards should be a major issue. The industry is really taking advantage of people, and no one is doing anything about it. The local govts try but they get pushed out by the feds who say they will take care of complaints and consumer issues but never do.

[Patroklos]

When you didn't read the source of your link, did you notice that it invariable says "medical contributors" to 50% of bankruptcies? Why is it every time you argue your sources always agree with me?

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/public_affairs/articles/docs/abi01sepnumbers.html

Let me ask you Oerdin, as you sit in your oversized expensive house now worth less than you bought it for, are you more or less likely to be able to weather a medical problem? If the added debt of that problem makes you go backrupt which one are you going to blame, the house or the medical problem?

Its important, because this study ASKED what made these people go bankrupt, they didn't actually look at their finances.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor
It seems that problem lies much more with your healthcare than with your credit policy. Did any of the major candidates say their open support for socialized healthcare?

Both of the Democrats did while McCain continues to repeat the traditional Republican talking points.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Credit cards should be a major issue.

I do consider credit cards to be a major issue. They are intended to increase consumption, in a country where the saving rate is already abysmal.

However, more than credit cards, I think your country has a serious problem with trust in the future, be it macroeconomically (the immense trust in the housing market, only to be replaced by a credit crunch based on excessive distrust), but also microeconomically.
In this thread, people tell me credit cards are good because they know they'll be able to pay for their debt next month. ****, you have employment at will in most parts of your country, how can you be sure to have your money at the end of the month? Your health coverage is a complete scam, how can you expect not to have a huge medical bill tomorrow that your insurance won't pay, as said in the small print?

This "what could possibly go wrong?" mentality (sometimes balanced by "what could possibly go right?"), while it allows for great achievements sometimes, also allow for really stupid moves that are only based on stupidity or imprudence.
Like buying a home with a variable-rate loan.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Remember it is not possible to declare bankruptcy and eliminate credit card debt. The banks lobbied the Republican controlled Congress into revoking most bankruptcy protections and then they also got the Federal usury law so watered down it is meaningless (both in 2004 if memory services). It used to be illegal to charge more then 25% interest but now banks are free to raise rates much higher just as long as they give one month prior notice. That means you can have a fixed 9% card, be late on one payment and find yourself with a 30%-35% rate card for all of your existing balance.

And the Democrats SUPPORTED IT!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Ohhhhh, fun with numbers!!!

Well Oerdin, it may be the #1 cause, but what percetage of the whole does it make? A majority?

Actually, about 75% are forced into bankruptcy by a job loss or a serious illness.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I do consider credit cards to be a major issue. They are intended to increase consumption, in a country where the saving rate is already abysmal.

There's nothing wrong with consumption but the cards are intended to increase profits and they are being used to treat people unfairly and take advantage of them.

I don't particularly disagree at all with the credit cards themselves any more than other products and services. What I disagree with is things like the companies jacking up your rates for no good reason and things like that.

However, more than credit cards, I think your country has a serious problem with trust in the future, be it macroeconomically (the immense trust in the housing market, only to be replaced by a credit crunch based on excessive distrust), but also microeconomically.
In this thread, people tell me credit cards are good because they know they'll be able to pay for their debt next month. ****, you have employment at will in most parts of your country, how can you be sure to have your money at the end of the month? Your health coverage is a complete scam, how can you expect not to have a huge medical bill tomorrow that your insurance won't pay, as said in the small print?

This "what could possibly go wrong?" mentality (sometimes balanced by "what could possibly go right?"), while it allows for great achievements sometimes, also allow for really stupid moves that are only based on stupidity or imprudence.
Like buying a home with a variable-rate loan.

Thriftiness isn't the way to go either. You have to spend money to make money, and that means jobs, not just for people in the US but in Europe and the rest of the world. The whole world economy depends on people spending money in the US.