Ontario to become "have not" province in 2 years, Western provs to subsidize the east

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by CrONoS
What is surprising is PEI, NB, Man, NE, Qc, NFL and Sask all received money from the perequation(equalization?). Per capita Manitoba received more than Quebec in perequation.

There is two provinces which do not beneficiary from perequation (equalization?): BC and Ab. Ontario was in the neutral bracket.

Where I can see an argument in favor of equalization is that the increasing demand for energy which lead to an higher dollars, are badly affecting eastern can and center can manufacturing industry.

High energy prices are affecting everyone, including people and industry in Alberta. We're paying as much or more for gasoline as people elsewhere in Canada. The cushion we have is the affluence of a boom, but that is not much comfort for people left out.

I'm not sure what you meant by Ontario 'was in the neutral bracket,' or the rest of that sentence. Ontario has been the engine on equalization since the programme's inception. Alberta grew (and got lucky) and has pitched in more and more. BC until very recently had slumped and was receiving. Very recently.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher


Did someone say something? Where are you??

You've been away too long. Saskatchewan is booming.

[SlowwHand]

Sasquatch ranches are booming.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
You've been away too long. Saskatchewan is booming.

I know all about it, but it's not much of a troll, is it...

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by notyoueither


High energy prices are affecting everyone, including people and industry in Alberta. We're paying as much or more for gasoline as people elsewhere in Canada. The cushion we have is the affluence of a boom, but that is not much comfort for people left out.

That's not the same thing I spoke about, I spoke about the competitiveness of an industry. If your economy is dependent of your exportation, and there is a rise in the value of the cdn dollars (because of a growing in the demand of cnd oil); it would be much more difficult to compete in the world market for the country, that's why it penalize, in a way, some province, more than others. When the cdn dollars is rising, the competitiveness of Canadian industry are lowering.

Because of this fact, I understand why we include 50% of the income from natural resource to be included in the equalization payment.

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by notyoueither

I'm not sure what you meant by Ontario 'was in the neutral bracket,' or the rest of that sentence. Ontario has been the engine on equalization since the programm's inception. Alberta grew (and got lucky) and has pitched in more and more. BC until very recently had slumped and was receiving. Very recently.

I said neutral bracket because of the way that the graph I had was made. But I should have said, that they are very near the means of the fiscal capacity of the CDN provinces.

Only three provinces — Alberta, B.C. and Ontario — are considered wealthy enough not to require equalization. But all, except for Ontario, have received it in the past. (Quoted from CBC)

[notyoueither]

I'm not sure which graph you are referring to.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by CrONoS


That's not the same thing I spoke about, I spoke about the competitiveness of an industry. If your economy is dependent of your exportation, and there is a rise in the value of the cdn dollars (because of a growing in the demand of cnd oil); it would be much more difficult to compete in the world market for the country, that's why it penalize, in a way, some province, more than others. When the cdn dollars is rising, the competitiveness of Canadian industry are lowering.

Because of this fact, I understand why we include 50% of the income from natural resource to be included in the equalization payment.

What parts of the economies of Western Canada are not dependant on exports?

Our industries pay the same prices for energy. We have the same dollar.

[Asher]

So as usual...Toronto blames Ontario, Ontario blames...the federal government. The problem is never within, is it.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/422249

Ontarians blame Ottawa for economic woes: Poll

OTTAWA–The Conservative government of Stephen Harper will pay a stiff price in a future election if Ontario's economic struggles endure and plunge the province into have-not status, a new poll suggests.

The Canadian Press-Harris/Decima poll conducted in the first week of May shows that while Ontarians lay the blame for the poor economy on the doorsteps of both the federal and provincial governments, when push comes to shove, more choose Ottawa as the bigger culprit.

The survey found that 62 per cent of Ontarians believe the Harper government is not doing enough to help the province from falling into have-not status, whereas only 50 per cent say the same thing about Premier Dalton McGuinty.

Pollster Bruce Anderson of Harris/Decima said the high number of Ontarians dissatisfied with the Harper government's record on the economy is a wake-up call for the Conservatives because they would need to do well in Ontario to have a chance at forming a majority government.

"Presumably one of the things they hope to be able to run on is on being sound economic managers, so in the most seat-rich province they find themselves in a situation where too many see them as having been part of the decline of the economy," he said.

Even nationally, more Canadians (34 per cent of those outside Ontario) are more likely to blame the federal government than the provincial government (27 per cent) for Ontario's woes.

The telephone survey of 1,000 was conducted from May 1 to May 4 and is considered accurate plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. For Ontario, the sampling is considered accurate plus or minus 5.4 percentage points.

Ottawa and Queen's Park have been engaged in a war of words over the economy for months, primarily ignited by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's repeated rebuke that McGuinty's high business tax policies are holding back the province.

The two sides were at it again last week after the TD Bank reported that if current trends continue, Ontario could qualify for equalization payments as a have-not province within two years.

But the poll suggests that the federal strategy of pinning the blame on McGuinty is not working.

"To challenge the provincial government is risky because that government just got elected and because you are basically saying you are not sure how much you can do to solve that problem," said Anderson.

Anderson said it is normal for people to turn to the federal government for answers in an economic slump.

As such, he said Liberal leader Stéphane Dion has an opportunity to score points if he can present his party as most likely to do something positive to rescue the economy.

The survey also found a general ambivalence in the country about the province that has been known as the cash-cow of Confederation becoming one of its equalization recipients.

Should Ontario qualify for equalization, only about 50 per cent of Canadians outside the province think Queen's Park should accept it.

In Ontario, the numbers were higher, with about 65 per cent saying the province should seek and accept payments from other parts of the country.

But one quarter of Ontarians and almost four in 10 outside the province think Ontario should not get equalization payments.

Although Ontario briefly qualified for equalization during the OPEC oil crisis of the early 1970s, it has never received payments from the fund meant to ensure that Canadians from coast to coast receive comparable levels of government programs and services.

Anderson said the ambivalence may reflect general surprise that Ontario could find itself in such a predicament, and resistance to thinking of the province as needing charity from the rest of the country.

"I think a lot of people think that equalization is meant to cushion some of the worst, protracted economic discrepancies," he said.

"So even if they see Ontario's economy is not as robust as some of the western economies this year, that doesn't mean they think it's on its knees."

Another factor, added Anderson, is that the vast majority of people both inside and outside the province believe Ontario's current woes are temporary.

More than three quarters of Canadians believe Ontario's economy will adapt and remain one of the most prosperous in the country.

So enlighten me, just what should the federal government do here to help Ontario out?

[CrONoS]

Originally posted by notyoueither


What parts of the economies of Western Canada are not dependant on exports?

Competitiveness in international trade are mainly the combination of two things; the cost of producing a unit and the cost of your dollars.

When the demand for oil grow up; the price of cdn grow up and industries(like manufactures) which doesn't have the same price structure than the oil industry are losing their competitiveness.

[SpencerH]

Its time to resurect le partie de British Columbia (seperatist).

Our platform

1. Leave the eastern ****heads to endlessly talk among themselves in their brown suits. Nobody in BC says things like "aboot", eh!
2. Become the 51st state.
3. Declare independence along with California, Oregon, Hawaii, and Washington.
4. Form a confederation with Japan and invent cyborgs.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by CrONoS


Competitiveness in international trade are mainly the combination of two things; the cost of producing a unit and the cost of your dollars.

When the demand for oil grow up; the price of cdn grow up and industries(like manufactures) which doesn't have the same price structure than the oil industry are losing their competitiveness.

The oil industry is a small fraction of the Western Canadian economy.

You would do better for yourself by not looking for excuses as crutches for your own failures. Collectively speaking of course.

BC has next to zero petro industry. They have recovered from have-not to have during the run-up in the price of oil and the Canadian dollar.