Pregnant teens belong in jail

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Seems like it wouldn't be so hard since she called the police and the police arived and saw her beat up. But, I guess they have to make sure.

The law in Canada was changed several years back to remove police discretion when it comes to domestic assault. If they attend at the scene and suspect an assault has indeed occured they are required to make an arrest. This change was advocated by the same groups that are now upset about the current situation.

As KH mentions, a conviction will be unlikely w/o her testimony. Testimony of how beat up she looked won't mean anything unless there is evidence of how the injuries happened. I doubt the cops saw the actual assault.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil
As KH mentions, a conviction will be unlikely w/o her testimony. Testimony of how beat up she looked won't mean anything unless there is evidence of how the injuries happened. I doubt the cops saw the actual assault.

There certainly is evidence of how the injuries occured. Are you guys nuts?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Kid, do you understand the concept of "hearsay"?

http://jec.unm.edu/resources/benchbo...hart/index.htm

For a variety of reasons, alleged victims of domestic violence may not testify at trial as the prosecution expects. For a discussion of this issue, see Chapter 10, Evidence in Domestic Violence Cases, New Mexico Domestic Violence Benchbook. Prosecutors may attempt to prove their case nonetheless by introducing other evidence of the defendant’s assault on the victim. This evidence often takes the form of prior statements, either written or oral, made by the victim, responding police officers, or other witnesses. These typically are called “hearsay” statements.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Kidicious


There certainly is evidence of how the injuries occured. Are you guys nuts?

What is this evidence you speak of?

edit - If you are referring to her hearsay complaint/statement it is unlikely to pass our exceptions to hearsay requirements.

[Donegeal]

Canada: Protect the accused, lock up the victim!

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kidicious


http://jec.unm.edu/resources/benchbo...hart/index.htm

I find it very amusing that you quoted this. My mother prosecutes domestic abuse cases in New Mexico. She regularly has cases where the victim refuses to testify, and hates every one of them - often it is simple to show a rational person that abuse occurred, but without the testimony of the victim it is very difficult to obtain a conviction (unless the Cops or someone else watched it happen, which happens very rarely).

[KrazyHorse]

I also find it amusing that Kid thinks New Mexico law applies in Ontario...

[Kidlicious]

It should.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Donegeal
Canada: Protect the accused, lock up the victim!

All right. I'll feed your troll. Take a look at this other current Canadian news story.

MERRITT, B.C. - The father who is the prime suspect in the murders of his three young children told a justice of the peace days before the killings that he was having difficulty with the separation of his family.

Allan Schoenborn, who hasn't been seen since the discovery of his children's bodies in their trailer home Sunday, was arrested last Thursday after an incident at his children's school.

"I just have a hard time, you know, dealing with my separation of my family," Schoenborn said at a bail hearing later that day, according to a transcript released Thursday.

"It's really hard to be without the ones you love."

A police officer alleged during the hearing that Schoenborn went to the school and confronted a student he believed was harassing his daughter and then confronted the school principal.

Schoenborn is now the subject of a police manhunt and remains the main suspect in the deaths of Kaitlynne, 10, Max, eight, and Cordon, five.


Days before the killings, Schoenborn told the justice of the peace at the bail hearing that he was "working hard" on the problems in his family and that he only went to the school to defend his daughter.

While Schoenborn insisted he didn't threaten anyone, he acknowledged he acted inappropriately.

"I reacted badly, I guess. But my daughter, all I saw was her tears," said Schoenborn, who said he'd been living with Clarke and the children in Merritt for about three days.

"I didn't threaten. I did react badly, poorly."

Schoenborn even asked to apologize to the student and the principal, but was ordered not to contact them.

The killings have left residents of Merritt, a community of 7,000 about 270 kilometres northeast of Vancouver, with many questions they'd hoped to have answered at a community meeting Thursday.

However, hundreds of anxious residents who crowded into the local civic centre were told they would not be allowed to ask questions of police or town officials.

Police did not warn the public until the next day that Schoenborn was on the run.

"We don't know if he's around our back door," said Brenda Gustafson, who brought her 22-month-old daughter to the meeting.

"We're scared to go out. We're scared to go downtown. We're scared to go anywhere."

Gwen Pruden said there are many questions about the way police and justice officials handled the case, before and after the children were killed.

"It's the justice system that I'm very much concerned with," she said.

She said there were several red flags.

Schoenborn had three run-ins with RCMP in the week prior to the murders - the last one at the school.

The officer at the bail hearing opposed his release because Schoenborn posed a flight risk. He pointed to a previous charge of failing to appear, the fact that Schoenborn had only recently arrived in Merritt, and alleging that Schoenborn tried to escape following his arrest.

But the officer didn't raise any concerns that Schoenborn posed a danger to anyone.

Rather, the transcript confirms that when the justice of the peace asked whether there was any friction between Schoenborn and Clarke, he was told no.

It's not clear from the transcript how much information the justice of the peace was given about a previous peace bond. Schoenborn pleaded guilty in February to violating that peace bond.

Schoenborn was ordered not to have any contact with Clarke within 12 hours of consuming alcohol. He was also to leave if requested to do so by Clarke or the police.

The officer briefly mentioned a bond but according to the transcript, didn't offer specifics. Documents presented to the justice of the peace outlining Schoenborn's criminal record weren't included with the transcript.

The RCMP have said they weren't aware of any restrictions.

Staff Sgt. Scott Tod, head of the Merritt detachment, confirmed that police had had contact with the family.

"There wasn't any indication at any point in time that he was a threat to his children or their mother," Tod told residents at the meeting.

"The Merritt RCMP did not receive any complaint that she feared for her safety or that of her children."

RCMP Assistant Commissioner Al McIntyre said police began the search for Schoenborn on Sunday, even if the public wasn't warned until the next day.

He said the time to examine whether police acted appropriately is later.

"Our focus right now is finding him," McIntyre told reporters.

He said police still believe Schoenborn could be camping out in the bush with his dog. Schoenborn did not have access to a vehicle and none have been reported stolen in the area.

"From what I understand, I think it is a fairly strong expectation that he did go to the bush but, then again, we don't where he is and we haven't found him in the bush yet, notwithstanding our efforts," McIntyre said.

A counsellor told residents that the entire community is struggling with what happened.

"We'd love to give you answers but there are none," Dave McCauley said at the town meeting.

He appealed to residents to encourage RCMP who "are undergoing a tremendous amount of stress. They were the first on the scene."

A trust fund has been set up for Clarke at the Interior Savings and Credit Union.

One of Schoenborn's cousins in Winnipeg is urging people to contribute to the fund.

Val Truthwaite said she's been trying to get in touch with Clarke.

"We are so, so sorry for this tragedy," Truthwaite said.

"We want them (Clarke's family) to know that our thoughts are with you constantly, and we're praying for you."

Truthwaite said she and her family, who haven't seen Schoenborn since he was a child, want him to turn himself in.

"Please don't run anymore, turn yourself in," she said. "I'm afraid no matter what, it's not going to turn out good."

Mayor David Laird lashed out at the media Thursday for coverage of the tragedy, demanding they leave the town.

"This is no longer a national event," he said.

"The only thing that might bring people back into this community is when they catch the individual they're looking for and that'll be an RCMP release.

"I'm asking the media to please go home and leave our community alone."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/04/06/5213326-cp.html

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Kid, do you understand the concept of "hearsay"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_United_States_law

In some jurisdictions such as Canada the limited exceptions format to the rule have been replaced by a more general theory of exceptions to the hearsay rule that allows courts to decide when documents, testimony or other evidentiary proof can be used that might not otherwise be considered.

Under the limited exceptions format, an argument can be made that the 911 call is an excited utterance or present sense impression and thus allowed to be admited. However, I dunno what the general theory of exceptions say on this matter, but I can see it being admitted into evidence as a exception to the hearsay rule.

[KrazyHorse]

From what I understand it's generally pretty tough in practice to get past the hearsay barrier...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
It's not a false criminal complaint you numnuts.

How do you know that? The alleged victim has recanted. Sounds as if she's aying that she made a false complaint.

[TheStinger]

As Lionel Hutz says Hearsay is a type of evidence

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
How do you know that? The alleged victim has recanted. Sounds as if she's aying that she made a false complaint.

Who said she recanted? She just doesn't want to testify.

[KrazyHorse]

a) I don't even know if she filed a police report
b) She can be forced to testify. You don't have the right not to testify unless by doing so you would incriminate yourself