Science Fiction as Literature

[Ming]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Why can't that be literature?

As I said... it really depends on what your definition of literature is. Some might claim it is. I wouldn't. But that's just my opinion. I remember reading it in its original form. I enjoyed it for what it was. Your typical short story with a surprise ending with a twist. But I wouldn't consider it great literature.

[Perfection]

English teachers are old women, old women hate SciFi.

[quantum_mechani]

Originally posted by snoopy369

Kim Stanley Robinson

Ugh, this qualifies only if you define literature as 'boring books'. Red Mars remains one of the few books I think I actually regret finishing.

[Jon Miller]

Gene Wolfe is often considered literature. As are Kurt Vonnegut and Delany.

JM

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Perfection
English teachers are old women, old women hate SciFi.

QFMFT

[Jon Miller]

A lot of science fiction is pretty crap writing/story telling though. Bujold is a pretty good science fiction writer, as is Banks.

Brin I wouldn't consider in the top 20 to be considered literature (although he is decent).

JM

[Verto]

Jules Verne

[Jon Miller]

My recommendation is "The Book of the New Sun" by Gene Wolfe.

JM

[Perfection]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
QFMFT

And that's really the problem. The books they like revolve around fitting in, morality, and romance and stupid girl stuff. The literature that men care about generally revolve killing, screwing, stealling and laughing at stuff.

This is why boys don't read, because everything they read in school is girly stuff.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Science Fiction as Literature

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
All genres arguably contain some works that could be considered "literature," if by "literature" we mean "good" or "complex." I was explaining why none are, which was Eli's rhetorical question. And that extends to fantasy -- no English department takes Lord of the Rings seriously. At the same time, no English department would categorize "Midnight's Children" as a fantasy novel, since it contains none of the markers of the genre.

On the other hand, at Rutgers the English department offered a class on Tolkien .

And Midnight's Children is magical realism, which most definitely is subgenre of fantasy. Simply because some departments would want to define it out because to them the term "fantasy" is not an art form, but simply a commercial vessel does not make them right. It is this same impulse that leads them to consider Cormac McCarthy's "The Road" not to be science fiction when it quite obvious is. It is trying to draw walls around the genre to prevent any work of literary merit from being included within because of their own prejudices.

I have, for instance, noticed Susanna Clarke's magnificent "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell" in the Fiction shelves at bookstores instead of Science Fiction & Fantasy, when it quite clearly is Fantasy, by any and all measures. Simply because the language used is so wonderful does not mean it gets beamed to General Fiction in a flash.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
My recommendation is "The Book of the New Sun" by Gene Wolfe.

JM

I read them, but I hated them.

ACK!

[Nostromo]

Re: Re: Science Fiction as Literature

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


All your reasons are wrong.

The real reason is that no genre fiction is considered literature. The prejuidice against scifi extends to mysteries, romances, horror novels, etc. The chief reason is that genre fiction, by its very nature, is strongly bound by convention and therefore considered to be incapable of exhibiting the originality that is expected of capital-L Literature. A secondary reason is that genre fiction is considered to exist primarily for commercial purposes and only incidently as creative expression, while the opposite is is considered to be true of capital-L lit.

You can agree or disagree with the reasoning, but that's the reasoning.

Good point.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Perfection
English teachers are old women, old women hate SciFi.

Not to inject an unwelcome not of reality into this misogynist fantasy fest, but -- just to pick the two most obvious examples -- men outnumber women on the Yale English faculty and massively outnumber them Harvard English faculty (by more that 2:1); since commonly held cultural definitions of literature tend to be derived from work done in institutions like the Harvard and Yale English departments, rather than from the opinions of internet posters with mommy issues, I'd say your reasoning leaves a lot to be desired.

[Perfection]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Not to inject an unwelcome not of reality into this misogynist fantasy fest,

How is this misogynist? Women generally dislike scifi! Is that a horrible thing to say?

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
but -- just to pick the two most obvious examples -- men outnumber women on the Yale English faculty and massively outnumber them Harvard English faculty (by more that 2:1); since commonly held cultural definitions of literature tend to be derived from work done in institutions like the Harvard and Yale English departments, rather than from the opinions of internet posters with mommy issues, I'd say your reasoning leaves a lot to be desired.

WRONG! Commonly held definitions of literature tend to be derived from middle/high school and to a lesser extent college not prestigious institutions. This is because everybody has had a crapton of middle amnd high school english teachers, a few have one or two college english profs, and almost nobody went to top tier university english classes.

[Jon Miller]

Oh, Lequin is also often considered literature. Often times, speculative fiction is considered literature if it:
Is talking about the same sort of stuff as the rest of literature.
Is well written (or at least decently written).
Being written by a minority of some type is a bonus.

JM