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They better save the world in the courtroom or we're all doomed

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  • They better save the world in the courtroom or we're all doomed

    More fighting in Iraq. Somalia in chaos. People in this country can’t afford their mortgages and in some places now they can’t even afford rice.
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    Times Topics: CERN

    None of this nor the rest of the grimness on the front page today will matter a bit, though, if two men pursuing a lawsuit in federal court in Hawaii turn out to be right. They think a giant particle accelerator that will begin smashing protons together outside Geneva this summer might produce a black hole or something else that will spell the end of the Earth — and maybe the universe.

    Scientists say that is very unlikely — though they have done some checking just to make sure.

    The world’s physicists have spent 14 years and $8 billion building the Large Hadron Collider, in which the colliding protons will recreate energies and conditions last seen a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. Researchers will sift the debris from these primordial recreations for clues to the nature of mass and new forces and symmetries of nature.

    But Walter L. Wagner and Luis Sancho contend that scientists at the European Center for Nuclear Research, or CERN, have played down the chances that the collider could produce, among other horrors, a tiny black hole, which, they say, could eat the Earth. Or it could spit out something called a “strangelet” that would convert our planet to a shrunken dense dead lump of something called “strange matter.” Their suit also says CERN has failed to provide an environmental impact statement as required under the National Environmental Policy Act.

    Although it sounds bizarre, the case touches on a serious issue that has bothered scholars and scientists in recent years — namely how to estimate the risk of new groundbreaking experiments and who gets to decide whether or not to go ahead.

    The lawsuit, filed March 21 in Federal District Court, in Honolulu, seeks a temporary restraining order prohibiting CERN from proceeding with the accelerator until it has produced a safety report and an environmental assessment. It names the federal Department of Energy, the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, the National Science Foundation and CERN as defendants.

    According to a spokesman for the Justice Department, which is representing the Department of Energy, a scheduling meeting has been set for June 16.

    Why should CERN, an organization of European nations based in Switzerland, even show up in a Hawaiian courtroom? ....
    Long article, rest here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/sc...=1&oref=slogin

    Unsurprisingly, it has to do with fizzics again, I'm sure KH is behind it somehow
    Blah

  • #2
    If there's a chance it produces a "strangelet", I think we have to go for it.

    I'm not so thrilled about a "tiny black hole" simply because it could use a better name. If we're going to destroy our planet, it should be by producing an anomaly with an interesting moniker.

    Comment


    • #3


      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

      Comment


      • #4
        If only the Swiss were still busy with the cuckoo clocks, a lot of people would sleep much better at night.

        Of course, a lot of people wouldn't.. I guess you just can win here.

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        • #5
          Does anyone still remember that earthquake device they were working on a few years ago? There was a thread on it… I guess they went over to bigger things…
          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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          • #6
            BTW Why in the world should this project funded and run by most of Europe’s countries, show up? I mean if they don’t comply what will the US do, invade?
            Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
            The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
            The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

            Comment


            • #7
              But come to thin of it the boys at CERN are brilliant, finally we have a way to reminisce about the good old days when Europe mattered and the world was ruled by people with monocles..







              You will give us 100 trillion EUR or we will fire up the Large Hadron Collider!
              Last edited by Heraclitus; March 31, 2008, 14:19.
              Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
              The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
              The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Heraclitus
                BTW Why in the world should this project funded and run by most of Europe’s countries, show up? I mean if they don’t comply what will the US do, invade?
                We could bomb you guys into the Victorian age, back when people still cared about Europe. But more likely we'll ask the WTO for some economic penalties.
                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Theben


                  We could bomb you guys into the Victorian age, back when people still cared about Europe. .
                  No you couldn’t nuclear retaliation would create a MAD situation, since that missile defense shield is not really working that well.


                  Originally posted by Theben
                  But more likely we'll ask the WTO for some economic penalties.
                  Being a villain isn’t as fun as it used to be. Can't you at least try to send a covert team to sabotage the undreground complex?
                  Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                  The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                  The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Heraclitus
                    Being a villain isn’t as fun as it used to be. Can't you at least try to send a covert team to sabotage the undreground complex?

                    Fembots.
                    Attached Files
                    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                    • #11
                      I remember reading a news article that dealt with exactly this same fear (that strange subatomic particles created by a supercollider could give rise to an unstoppable cascade of strange particles, or alternatively create a black hole) back in 1999.

                      This lawsuit is a bit late, but if what they're saying is true, maybe better late than never.

                      I only hope they're seeking a legal injunction though. Because frankly the other legal remedies probably won't amount to much if they turn out to be right.

                      (How do you set a dollar amount for damages when the damages end up turning the Earth into a black hole?)
                      "lol internet" ~ AAHZ

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                      • #12
                        Dumb layman question:

                        Wouldn't a tiny black hole induce fusion in the surrounding matter, propelling itself out into space?

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                        • #13
                          I don't think so. Because to fuse to particles together, they'd have to be moving towards each other. If a black hole appeared, all surrounding matter would be sucked into it, disappearing forever.

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                          • #14
                            Bah! Were can a man find a place where scientists are not bound by petty morality.
                            Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                            The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                            The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Psst, there's a large country located in East Asia that wants to talk to you. Bring your resume
                              "lol internet" ~ AAHZ

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