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US doesn't honor treaties and Texas sucks.

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  • US doesn't honor treaties and Texas sucks.

    I see this as lawyer bull**** and a national disgrace. I mean why should any country sign a treaty with the US if it disregards treaties when ever it becomes politically popular to do so? This is just a crock.

    So what is this case about? Jose Ernesto Medellin is a Mexican national who was convicted in Texas in 2004 of taking part in the gang rape and murder of two young women in 1993. I agree a horrible crime. The problem is under the 1963 Vienna Treaty foreign nationals are entitled to consult and receive advice from their embassy when accused of a crime. In this case the local authorities in Texas prevented the accused from contacting his embassy until after he had been convicted and sentenced to death. This is a clear violation of the US's treaty obligations under the Vienna Treaty and of the US Constitution. Here's a quote from the constitution:

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby
    The constitution is very clear that treaties which have been duly ratified take precedence over any state laws contrary to treaty obligations (provided that treaty does not violate the US Constitution). Texas claimed that Texas's state law didn't require the Mexican embassy to be notified; a clear violation of American treaty obligations. Despite this violation an appeals court in Texas ruled for the State of Texas claiming that state sovereignty and thus state laws trumped US treaty obligations. WTF?! Did those dumbasses in Texas read the Constitution?

    To top this off under the Vienna Treaty all signatories agreed to subject disputes to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in Vienna and the ICJ ruled in favor of Mr. Medillin and against the state of Texas ruling that the state of Texas violated Mr Medillin's treaty rights.

    So this should be a slam dunk right? Wrong, the Supreme Court just ruled that states can ignore treaties citing state sovereignty and executive privilege which is bizarre given that for once Bush was actually trying to enforce international law even telling the court that 50 other cases in Texas would have to be thrown out due to Texas violating the Vienna Treaty. This is an absolutely bizarre rulling. Naturally, the right wing blogosphere is cheering about "protecting American sovereignty" and engaging in racial bashing of hispanics.

    I suspect that public opinion and the current right wing craze for xenophobia, nativism, and blaming everything on Hispanics is to blame. The majority on the court based their flawed argument on a previously poorly reasoned case both of which are in direct violation of very clear Constitutional language quoted above. It sucks that if the law was actually followed that murders would walk free but we must be a nation of laws and police are not free to break the law or ignore international treaties duly ratified when ever they please.

    This is just horse ****.

    Last edited by Dinner; March 28, 2008, 19:53.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    You've just insulted Texas! You want Sloww to give you a roundhouse kick to the face?

    Comment


    • #3
      This isn't the first time Texas has done this. There was a Cdn badguy in the same situation a few years back. He's dead now.

      edit - And no, the US doesn't follow treaties. The recent softwood lumber dispute was evidence of that on the economic front.
      "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
      "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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      • #4
        boo hoo.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't give a **** about the accused. I do give a **** about the rule of law. You should too.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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          • #6
            treaties dont trump the Constitution, and the Constitution defines due process - this man was given due process.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Berzerker
              treaties dont trump the Constitution, and the Constitution defines due process - this man was given due process.
              Originally posted by the Constitution
              This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby
              Lime roots and treachery!
              "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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              • #8
                I have full regard for victims. I have more regard to the rule of law though because I believe the rule of law is the basis of modern society. We simply cannot live without it.
                Last edited by Drogue; March 29, 2008, 08:10.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Berzerker
                  treaties dont trump the Constitution, and the Constitution defines due process - this man was given due process.
                  I can only conclude that you are completely illiterate or failed to read the OP.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                  • #10
                    you cant do better than that? I read it, and it says the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land - and any treaty that changes it is null and void because treaties cant violate the Constitution. This treaty changes due process, thats requires a constitutional amendment.

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                    • #11
                      Jesus man, you are dense. I shall quote again for those of low intelligence.

                      This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thats not what it says, Berz.
                        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                        • #13
                          I thought you people liked State's Rights? Federalism is a *****, isn't it?
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                          • #14
                            CUT THE PERSONAL CRAP NOW OR BE CHILLED.
                            <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                            I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Berzerker
                              you cant do better than that? I read it, and it says the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land - and any treaty that changes it is null and void because treaties cant violate the Constitution. This treaty changes due process, thats requires a constitutional amendment.
                              Yeah, sorry Berz, but no. The constitution applies when in CONFLICT with treaties, but if it says nothing about the matter it is not relevant. In this case, the Constitution is silent in regards to foreign nationals seeking their embassy, and thus the treaty takes precedence.

                              The Constitution guarantees you a right to Due Process Under The Law, it does not remove any rights in this regard.
                              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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