Why is it wrong to call this Apartheid (Isreal)?

[Dinner]

"Oh, my god! Palestinians have to use different roads then Israelis! IT'S GENOCIDE!"

[GePap]

Originally posted by Oerdin
"Oh, my god! Palestinians have to use different roads then Israelis! IT'S GENOCIDE!"

On the subject of Arabs and Islam, you sound more like Winston every day, which is sad.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Because in South Africa you did not have a massive wide spread terrorism campaign (a handful of isolated cases don't count) where as Palestinians really are terrorist supporting dog ****. They can't be allowed in areas with Israeli civilians because they murder people when they are allowed in. These are legitament security needs which cannot be ignored.

Isolated cases?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_National_Congress

During the 1970s and 1980s the ANC leadership in exile under Oliver Tambo made the decision to target Apartheid government leadership, command and control, secret police, and military-industrial complex assets and personnel in decapitation strikes, targeted killings, and guerilla actions such as bomb explosions in facilities frequented by military and government personnel. A number of civilians were also killed in these attacks. Examples of these include the Amanzimtoti bombing[2], the Sterland bomb in Pretoria[3], the Wimpy bomb in Pretoria[4], the Juicy Lucy bomb in Pretoria[3] and the Magoo's bar bombing in Durban.[5] ANC acts of sabotage aimed at government institutions included the bombing of the Johannesburg Magistrates Court, the attack on the Koeberg nuclear power station, the rocket attack on Voortrekkerhoogte in Pretoria, and the 1983 Church Street bombing in Pretoria, which killed 16 and wounded 130.

The ANC was classified as a terrorist [6] organisation by the South African government and by some Western countries including the United States of America and the United Kingdom.

Sounds kind of like... oh, I dunno, a widespread terrorism campaign.

And so, since Palestinians may actually support those who want to fight against the colonial overloards who look at the Pals as second class citizens, they must all be punished for the violence of these few? That's like saying all blacks should have continued to be subject to Jim Crow because of the Black Panthers (which had greater support among the black community than people realize), regardless of whether they actually committed any violence of not.

[Dinner]

You won't even concede that there is a legitament security concern given the daily terrorist attacks Israelis are forced to endure?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Oerdin
You won't even concede that there is a legitament security concern given the daily terrorist attacks Israelis are forced to endure?

Collective punishment isn't a proportional response. Especially since the road was only allowed to be built because it was for the use of the Palestinians in the local area.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Sounds kind of like... oh, I dunno, a widespread terrorism campaign.

Then you have no clue what terrorism means. The ANC clearly made every effort to target military and government personal and facilities. To compare the Islamic terrorist organizations avoid military targets because the military shoots back. Instead their primary target is civilians just like the civilians who use the road in question. That's the difference between legitament insurgencies and terrorism.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Then you have no clue what terrorism means. The ANC clearly made every effort to target military and government personal and facilities. To compare the Islamic terrorist organizations avoid military targets because the military shoots back. Instead their primary target is civilians just like the civilians who use the road in question. That's the difference between legitament insurgencies and terrorism.

I'm sure that targeting a Magistrate Court, a nuclear power plant, a bar, and various Pretoria streets is just fine and dandy and in no way terrorist. So.. if someone managed to blow up Congress, that'd be... what, non-terrorist because it was a government facility?

Terrorism is about using violence to gain a political change. If you were targetting the military or government forces because you were planning of crippling their ability to fight back against an insurgency is one thing. But targeting the military or government so that the government passes a certain law or follows a different political policy is quite different. The later is what the ANC did.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
You won't even concede that there is a legitament security concern given the daily terrorist attacks Israelis are forced to endure?

Daily?

[Dinner]

Yes.

[chequita guevara]

Liar

[Robert]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Collective punishment isn't a proportional response. Especially since the road was only allowed to be built because it was for the use of the Palestinians in the local area.

You talk about proportional?
I'd say that after the decades of violence against Israel, both from nations (1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1991) and terrorists (1st intifada, 2nd intifada, Hamas Gaza) Israel's reaction is still quite proportional.

I'd say that Israel 'd better end this conflict for once and for all. Strike hard, and after you have clearly scared your enemies, you can start talking about peace.

It's not a very popular thing, but peace can only occur after the war has brought a clear winner. As long as both parties get the feeling that they can win, the war will continue. (stupid example: Clinton/Obama)

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by CyberShy
You talk about proportional?
I'd say that after the decades of violence against Israel, both from nations (1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1991) and terrorists (1st intifada, 2nd intifada, Hamas Gaza) Israel's reaction is still quite proportional.

That's because you're ignorant.

[Ming]

ENOUGH WITH THE PERSONAL CRAP!

[Robert]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


That's because you're ignorant.

Tell me about what I'm ignorant and If you come with some good arguments instead of this I may even turn over to 'your side'.
You can't expect me to change opinion based on nothing, can you?

Any response from your side on my post about ISrael's security?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by CyberShy
You talk about proportional?
I'd say that after the decades of violence against Israel, both from nations (1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1991) and terrorists (1st intifada, 2nd intifada, Hamas Gaza) Israel's reaction is still quite proportional.

I'd say that Israel 'd better end this conflict for once and for all. Strike hard, and after you have clearly scared your enemies, you can start talking about peace.

And I'm sure they'd like to see a few nukes detonate in their backyard.

Reducing a citizenry to second class because of violence by a subset of the population is never proportional and just begets more hard feelings, more violence, and more symphathy with those engaged in violent behavior.