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Iraq War - What's different this time?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by chegitz guevara


    Protests had a lot to do with ending American involvement in the war. If the American people had been solidly behind the war, we would have stayed as long as it took. Protests certainly considerably shorted the invasion of Cambodia, and the antiwar movement is why Ford didn't go back into Vietnam and Cambodia, or Agnola and Mozambique. It is why Bush I had to so carefully propagandize in order to make his case for war in Iraq in 1990.

    Your mistake is in looking for a direct causal relationship. The antiwar protesters were the tip of the iceberg. By 1970, most people in the U.S. were against the war, including business leaders. This change in sentiment in the U.S. in only five years was largely due to the protests. In addition, these protests spread into the very military itself. On top of all that, the antiwar movement was increasingly falling under the influence of revolutionary Marxism. Given what happened in France in May, 1968, the ruling class in America was increasingly of the opinion that the war in Vietnam was more trouble than it was worth.

    All because of protesters.
    You appear to agree that most people were opposed to the war and wanted to see it end. The change in sentiment certainly was not in response to the protests. On the contrary I think disgust with the protests actually helped bolster support for the war. The strongest influences behind the growing opposition to the war were surely the draft and casualties that accompanied it, TV bringing the appalling realities of the war directly into the homes of Americans and finally the sheer apparent permanence (lack of tangible progress year in year out) of the war.

    It's laughable to suggest that businesses opposed the war because they thought the protesters would overthrow the government and establish a socialist revolution.

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    • #62
      Hey I know my history. Forrest Gump was clearly ASKED to join the army.
      be free

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      • #63
        Iraq is a waste of time to think about. When are you gonna find something more interesting and mentally stimulating to focus on? There's no war in iraq despite what most of you think. It's just security duty for the USA to draw terrorists in who set up car bombs to kill iraqis off, and driving around in humvees to trigger, and thereby get rid of, roadside bombs. What could be less interesting than that day after day?
        Here is an interesting scenario to check out. The Vietnam war is cool.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by unscratchedfoot
          Iraq is a waste of time to think about. When are you gonna find something more interesting and mentally stimulating to focus on? There's no war in iraq despite what most of you think. It's just security duty for the USA to draw terrorists in who set up car bombs to kill iraqis off, and driving around in humvees to trigger, and thereby get rid of, roadside bombs. What could be less interesting than that day after day?
          arguing semantics about whether or not it's a war seems even more silly than wasting time thinking about the operation in general.

          It's definitely a military deployment amongst a largely hostile population and it's definitely more expensive than most wars and much bloodier than many wars have been (gulf war 1 or the original invasion in 2003 for example) so who cares if someone wants to define it as something other than a war? It's still a gargantuan wasteful boondoggle.

          We could build a freakin' base on the moon with that kind of money and the US death toll has surpassed that of the sept 11 2001 attacks so why are you surprised that it attracts some interest?

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          • #65
            Its either a war or an occupation, pick whichever is less distasteful to you, if you are an American.

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            • #66
              Have we had the 4,000th US soldier sent home in a body bag from Iraq yet?

              Must be coming close to that unfortunate milestone...
              Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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              • #67
                i expect you've got some balloons and party popers handy...
                "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                • #68
                  Yeah, for every time a polytubbie says something moronic like that...

                  Needless to say, party poppers are my single biggest expense these days.
                  Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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                  • #69
                    You're slipping, Moby. I believe we hit 4K some time ago.
                    1011 1100
                    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                    • #70
                      Wiki says 4,000 dead as of March 2008.

                      Maybe Mobius writes Wiki articles.
                      One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                      • #71
                        Well I knew it was the next major milestone...

                        I thought this surge thingy was supposed to reduce US casualties? I'm guessing not well enough.

                        Still, it was heartening to see the Iraqis feel strong enough in their army to commence operations against the militias in Basra, so progress is being made towards the day when most US soldiers can finally stop getting killed.
                        Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Dauphin
                          Wiki says 4,000 dead as of March 2008.

                          Maybe Mobius writes Wiki articles.
                          Nope, if I wrote them they'd be far more factual than the bollocks on that site...
                          Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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                          • #73
                            FACT!
                            One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                            • #74
                              Well I knew it was the next major milestone...
                              What makes it a milestone? The shiny zeros?

                              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Patroklos


                                What makes it a milestone? The shiny zeros?

                                No, those zeroes are well and truly tarnished with the blood of your countrymen and that of untold thousands of Iraqis civilians...

                                Well done indeed...
                                Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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