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Originally posted by Geronimo
There is unlimited room for new growth.
There is unlimited room for new growth.
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What is the first principle that you learn in econ 101?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh -
I can't be bothered to dig out the syllabus.Originally posted by Kidicious
What is the first principle that you learn in econ 101?
Which principle are you applying to the situation?Comment
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Scarcity.Originally posted by Geronimo
I can't be bothered to dig out the syllabus.
Which principle are you applying to the situation?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Again, don't put words in my mouth (this is becoming a rather annoying habit of some here). I merely cautioned that the numbers can be revised substantially and noted one particular area -- manufacturing -- where I thought the employment numbers weren't consistent with the value of the dollar.Originally posted by Oerdin
Basically we're having one quarter of negative growth and most of the big names in economics including people in official positions are saying it's going to happen. The problem with DanS "wait, it is not official yet" line is that the recession has to be a half year old before he'll admit it. Yes, after six months it becomes official but by then people have been living it for half a year and they don't need the government to tell them what's happening.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=88346806
Further, I noted that we aren't even in a bear market yet. Despite Bear going bust and SocGen and Lehman almost going bust, we are less than 20% off of our peak. It has been noisy, and the Fed has been acting furiously, but surprisingly little of consequence has been happening in the US stock market.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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when I saidOriginally posted by Kidicious
Scarcity.
"There is unlimited room for new growth." I didn't intend that to be an unqualified generalization.
Look at the context. By "unlimited room" I meant that in our current era there are multiple avenues of tremendous economic growth that aren't currently anywhere near fully utilized. They were chosen because scarcity doesn't appear to be the primary bottleneck dampening them down.
stripped of context I agree that "there is unlimited room for new growth" can be taken too generally.
So don't strip the context.Comment
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Could we spend more money on education or whatever? Sure. But that would not necessarily create economic growth, because you would have to take resources from somewhere else.Originally posted by Geronimo
Look at the context. By "unlimited room" I meant that in our current era there are multiple avenues of tremendous economic growth that aren't currently anywhere near fully utilized. They were chosen because scarcity doesn't appear to be the primary bottleneck dampening them down.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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that's why those areas weren't scarcity constrained because they increase resources directly or indirectly. Basically capital investments. Some may not be obvious in that respect but there's an argument for each of them. housing is the oddball to be sure since it's not truly a capital investment. And come to think of it that one may backfire since the scenario I had in mind would probably play out in reverse.Originally posted by Kidicious
Could we spend more money on education or whatever? Sure. But that would not necessarily create economic growth, because you would have to take resources from somewhere else.
I also added a clarification to the original post that always having room for new growth is dependent on an assumption that technological innovation can always deliver growth.Last edited by Geronimo; March 19, 2008, 11:10.Comment
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Please! Use the quote feature judiciously!I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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did some critical bit of context get omitted or was irrelevant material being needlessly quoted?Originally posted by DanS
Please! Use the quote feature judiciously!Comment
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The quote features breaks the ignore feature!I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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All of the things that you mentioned are constrained by scarcity. Also, you need to consider the law of diminishing returns. Look at the production possibilities curve.Originally posted by Geronimo
that's why those areas weren't scarcity constrained because they increase resources directly or indirectly. Basically capital investments. Some may not be obvious in that respect but there's an argument for each of them. housing is the oddball to be sure since it's not truly a capital investment. And come to think of it that one may backfire since the scenario I had in mind would probably play out in reverse.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Unfortunately, that is no longer remotely true. The US does not have unlimited room for (organic) growth, because it does not have unlimited resources, or substantial new frontiers; technological growth is certainly possible, but unfortunately that actually can do more harm than good, because it often involves reducing employment rather than increasing it (many of the current advances in technology involve automating processes to a greater degree). Research itself does not significantly help the economy (unless an entirely new field is opened, which is not something to be counted on), space exploitation is not happening (but certainly would be the best way for growth, if someone were to be convinced to do it) and subsidized growth is not unlimited (as it's limited by other economic factors).Originally posted by Geronimo
Nonsense. There is unlimited room for new growth. There's aways exotic stuff like research, space exploitation and expensive green technologies or there is more ordinary options like channeling growth into subsidized growth areas like education and housing.
The question is how to most efficiently grow the economy, not whether there is room for real growth. If ever it appears that there is no room for additional growth then either utopia has been achieved and there are no material problems in anyone's lives or the economy is not working as it should.<Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.Comment
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SorryOriginally posted by DanS
The quote features breaks the ignore feature!
For the record, what do you make of the idea that at least some modern economies have little to no room for additional growth?Comment
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DanS agrees with everything you said.Originally posted by Geronimo
Sorry
For the record, what do you make of the idea that at least some modern economies have little to no room for additional growth?
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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It's a common Malthusian fallacy. I wouldn't spend much time arguing it. It's true that some modern economies have more growth potential than others, but productivity growth -- the main determinant of the upper bound for economic growth -- is not a fixed variable.Originally posted by Geronimo
For the record, what do you make of the idea that at least some modern economies have little to no room for additional growth?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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