Equal rights or separate but equal?

[Berzerker]

Is it really that hard to just expel students that make stupid demands?

Yeah Sheik, take yer kid and yer millions and go home because Harvard dont want yer money


as for the OP part of me is tired of religious folks making demands on the rest of us and part of me understands that Harvard should make accommodations to their students and I suspect roughly half the school is female. Hell, we were dividing up gym time for the girls back when I was in school.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Yeah Sheik, take yer kid and yer millions and go home because Harvard dont want yer money

It's like an intelligence test. If you fail it by making patently stupid demands of the school, you aren't college material.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by snoopy369
It was put forth as an issue of civil rights, so I treated it as such. Harvard does have an obligation, as a public institution (even if not one funded by public moneys) to treat people equally and such (ie, they can't just accept white kids).

Sounds to me like they were treating people equally. In fact, sounds to me that the people complaining were complaining about being treated equally. Moreover, banning half the student body from facilities that they have paid for in order to accomodate someone's religious belief gets perilously close to a publicly-funded institution participating in the "establishment of religion" -- and that's another no-no.

That's precisely why it matters that Harvard is an American institution -- because it was demonstrating what we mean by "equal" in America. We are not a multi-cultural society; we are an assimilationist society, and that definition of equal is one thing people are expected to assimilate to. Don't like it? Hey, nobody forced you to go to Harvard.

[Andemagne]

Harvard University is a Christian/Atheist/Neutral/Liberal/WhatEverOtherThanMoslem school, isn't it? and those moslems don't have to study there. if you can't do it right, leave. if you want moslem rules, go to a moslem school. our women still have to cover their hair when they go to moslem land, SO they have to use our sport facilities our way.

[Elok]

They're just imposing societal mores, much like "no swimming naked." The difference, of course, is that almost all of society is opposed to public nudity, and only a few Muslims are against clothed coed swimming. Sort of pointless. But then, I don't go to Harvard, so I don't care.

[Kidlicious]

This is so stupid. Harvard can do this if they want. The students can go to another college if they don't like it.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Is it really that hard to just expel students that make stupid demands?

Harvard recently got a lot of money from Saudi Arabia. They aren't about to do anything.

Originally posted by snoopy369
When debating abridging the rights of one group to provide for the rights of another, you need to weigh the harm done in each option, whether there are other possibilities to solving the conflict, and ultimately choose the solution that does the least harm.

In this case, assuming all other facts are irrelevant (unbiased news sources, yeah, right, but it has to be assumed to have the discussion), it certainly sounds like the harm done by refusing admission to half the student body is far greater than the harm done to the muslim students, whose sensibilities are offended.

I think the solution might be rather simpler - encourage the muslim students to start a workout class where they might work out with others of similar opinions in a room in the gym (presumably this is a large enough gym to have rooms for workout classes). It is a fairly simple solution that gives both groups what they want mostly, while not seriously harming anyone's rights...

So the group you fear the most, or that has the deepest pockets gets the most rights?

BOSTON - A Saudi prince believed to be the wealthiest businessman in the Muslim world has donated $40 million for Harvard and Georgetown to expand their Islamic studies programs, the schools announced Monday.

Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud, who gave $20 million to each university, is a nephew of the late King Fahd and worth upward of $20 billion, according to Forbes magazine, which ranked him fifth on its 2005 list of the world’s billionaires.

Thats from a now deprecated yahoo news link.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051213/ap_on_re_us/harvard_islamic_studies

[Riesstiu IV]

If Harvard even remotely cared for the principles they stand for, they would have refused money from a man who comes from the most repressive nations in the world.

Saudi Arabia is the biggest funder of terrorism by far. Saudi business men and princes have funded numerous ideologically driven Islamic schools throughout the Middle East and even Europe. No Saudi citizen should be allowed to donate money to any American institution.

Originally posted by Kidicious
This is so stupid. Harvard can do this if they want. The students can go to another college if they don't like it.

I disagree. Students pay tuition out the ass for 4 years and part of that enormous bill includes a fee to cover university facilities. Any student that pays has a right to use the gym.

I mean what if a bunch of white students got enough support to have Harvard's black student population barred from using the gym at certain hours because they didn't like looking at them. Would you find that acceptable?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
If Harvard even remotely cared for the principles they stand for, they would have refused money from a man who comes from the most repressive nations in the world.

Colleges should refuse all donations

[Elok]

If this is really unpopular, Harvard's reputation will plummet and enrollment will...well, it'll start to suffer, anyway. I understand they get about forty times as many applicants as they can accept, something like that. Maybe it'll be whittled down to ten times before they get scared and stop pandering. Or maybe they'll keep pandering and people who mind can go to other schools.

[Lazerus]

No similar arrangement has been made for male students or for other religious groups.

There should be a set time for those whose cult forbids them to workout in the presence of muslims.

[Blake]

A similar question for communal living arrangements, is whether it's right to prepare vegetarian food for ideological vegetarians - particularly those who merely object to cruelty and don't have an aversion to meat itself.

At what point, should dietary preferences become a matter of "Prepare your own food!".

[Wiglaf]

Cows have no brains and are fat sources of iron that **** everywhere. If you have a moral objection to torturing and devouring them you have mental problems.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Cows have no brains and are fat sources of iron that **** everywhere. If you have a moral objection to torturing and devouring them you have mental problems.

You don't object to torturing animals?

[Wiglaf]

Well by torture I mean keeping them in confined spaces for economic reasons, and chopping their heads off slowly if it makes the meat yummier, etc. Not torture for the sake of it, but for other reasons, if the animal is simply so retarded but so useful.