The Successes of Capitalism

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Elok
I understand the economics, thank you. I'm not that dense on the subject. I'm sure the people who employ sweatshop labor use exactly that logic, selling feces as food to a starving man. It wouldn't be legal for them to treat people in America that way, so they subcontract it out, mistreat some foreigners instead. Out of sight, out of mind. I'm talking morals, not economics or law, and treating people like total crap is immoral even if they're used to being lower than crap.

I don't disagree that it's amoral in the abstract. I only pointed out that being moral would prevent development opportunities from going to the third world in the first place.

In other words if corporations act amoral, they give the third world a free choice between a crap sandwich and a **** sandwich, whereas if they act moral, the third world is left with only the **** sandwich. That's all there is to it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

so, how many people are forced to work in sweatshops?
if they have better options then i suggest they take them.

Communism

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871


I don't disagree that it's immoral in the abstract. I only pointed out that being moral would prevent development opportunities from going to the third world in the first place.

In other words if corporations act immoral, they give the third world a free choice between a crap sandwich and a **** sandwich, whereas if they act moral, the third world is left with only the **** sandwich. That's all there is to it.

Corporations are set up to act immoral. If you don't like that we need to change that.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Blake


One of the oldest fallacies in the book.

The logic that if someone chooses to do something, it must be in their self interest to do that!

The thing is, whenever there is an element of fear, anger, addiction, desperation that kind of thing, rational decision making is thrown out the window.

I think you are going in the right direction here, but I think specifically they are afraid, not addicted. They aren't forced to work in sweatshops, but they have no other options because they are taken advantage of. If they try to change that they will suffer for it, in the way of jail, poverty or maybe death.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Corporations are set up to act immoral. If you don't like that we need to change that.

...but in the meantime (since the vast, vast majority of ordinary people are, and will continue to be, far too ignorant and apathetic to "change that" whether you like it or not) I wouldn't mind seeing corporations' amorality at the very least spread some of their capital around the globe instead of hoarding it all inside the first world.

I want to upgrade from a **** sandwich to a crap sandwich in hopes that it might gradually lead somewhere, while people you want to make everyone else settle for a **** sandwich while crossing your fingers that a BLT will just drop out of the sky.

[Andemagne]

Re: The Successes of Capitalism

Originally posted by DaShi
Many moons ago, I made a thread asking to identify areas where capitalism failed.

link please.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871
...but in the meantime (since the vast, vast majority of ordinary people are, and will continue to be, far too ignorant and apathetic to "change that" whether you like it or not) I wouldn't mind seeing corporations' amorality at the very least spread some of their capital around the globe instead of hoarding it all inside the first world.

I want to upgrade from a **** sandwich to a crap sandwich in hopes that it might gradually lead somewhere, while people you want to make everyone else settle for a **** sandwich while crossing your fingers that a BLT will just drop out of the sky.

I agree, although I think that you are thinking about corporations like you would think about a person, when in fact they are organization set up for the specific purpose of making profit. They must function in that capacity unless society itself changes. Also, financial markets are very important to the economic system, and if corporations start acting morally it will hurt those markets.

My point is that it isn't corporations that can change the world, it has to be people.

[Wezil]

I've met the people. I don't trust them.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Wezil
I've met the people. I don't trust them.

People act in their own self-interest. That's all they have the capacity to do. And that's what will happen.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kidicious


People act in their own self-interest. That's all they have the capacity to do.

Are you some kind of rational choice fanatic? People don't act rationally all the time, and also not always in their interests. That's just a myth and happens when you try to take rational choice models as ultimate explanations for all human behaviour, which they aren't. They are tools to provide explanations in certain environments, nothing more.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by BeBro
Are you some kind of rational choice fanatic? People don't act rationally all the time, and also not always in their interests. That's just a myth and happens when you try to take rational choice models as ultimate explanations for all human behaviour, which they aren't. They are tool to provide explanations in certain environments, nothing more.

I meant people as in most people. It doesn't matter that a small percentage is irrational or crazy. However, even a lot of crazy people behave rationally most of the time. I won't argue that people aren't stupid though. But that's something that can be overcome.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
although I think that you are thinking about corporations like you would think about a person

I don't know how you got that impression. I never disagreed that amorality* inheres to the very nature of a corporation in a competitive system. That's not an argument in one direction or another, just a fact to start from.





* - I say amorality rather than immorality because even an inherently amoral entity can usually act morally if pragmatic concerns like 1) compliance with law and 2) not alienating conscientious customers are factored into considerations of what will ultimately be most profitable.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871


I don't know how you got that impression. I never disagreed that amorality* inheres to the very nature of a corporation in a competitive system. That's not an argument in one direction or another, just a fact to start from.





* - I say amorality rather than immorality because even an inherently amoral entity can usually act morally if pragmatic concerns like 1) compliance with law and 2) not alienating conscientious customers are factored into considerations of what will ultimately be most profitable.

Oops. I apologize for the confusion.