Fdr

[Geronimo]

I've seen multiple polls of scholars indicate that FDR is consistently near the top of any list of presidents ranked by effectiveness.

Looking over his initiatives I've generally been impressed as much by what has been discarded as by what has stood the test of time. Given that the depression he presided over lasted all the way through to ww2 I've never understood why he's so deserving of such praise. So what makes FDR such a great president? If it's his war record what initiative did he take which changed the course of the war?

[chequita guevara]

His charisma kept the U.S. from going Red.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
His charisma kept the U.S. from going Red.

Thanks. So US presidencies like candidacies tend not to get evaluated according to a consideration of their policies and issues by historians and scholars? A rather sad reality if true.

[Zkribbler]

Social Security -- so successful it broke the back of the assuption that old age = poverty.

new labor laws -- which gave the U.S. the most robust middle-class in the world.

TVA -- Electrified the Tennessee Valley.

Wall Street reform -- ended the boom-bust cycles...at least until the Reagan-Bush rollback of these safeguards, which lead to the banking crunch, the S&L scandals, massive airline bankruptcies, the Enron et al corporate scandals, the dot.com bust, the mortgage bust, the credit crisis, etc.

The Manhattan Project...

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Social Security -- so successful it broke the back of the assuption that old age = poverty.

new labor laws -- which gave the U.S. the most robust middle-class in the world.

TVA -- Electrified the Tennessee Valley.

Wall Street reform -- ended the boom-bust cycles...at least until the Reagan-Bush rollback of these safeguards, which lead to the banking crunch, the S&L scandals, massive airline bankruptcies, the Enron et al corporate scandals, the dot.com bust, the mortgage bust, the credit crisis, etc.

The Manhattan Project...

details! thanks

I can't see how modern scholars with 20/20 hindsight can regard social security as well implemented. How is social security supposed to pay for itself? and is it better for the elderly to be the wealthiest segment of the population when their living expenses are so much lower? It's also the most regressive federal tax we currently have iirc.

Wasn't it Fordism that gave the U.S. the most robust middle-class in the world well before FDR was president?

TVA is about as insightful as the Hoover dam. If it's a good thing why not rank other presidents higher for advocating such projects?

Albert Einstein was so well respected when he wrote that letter that's it's difficult to imagine any other war time US president responding any differently.


The Wall Street reforms seems like the best case for the high praise FDR receives. Specifically which of these critical reforms was FDRs brainchild?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Social Security -- so successful it broke the back of the assuption that old age = poverty.

You regard ponzi schemes as somehow being a good thing?

[Imran Siddiqui]

How is social security supposed to pay for itself?

Well, it wasn't supposed to be raided to fund the regular budget.

and is it better for the elderly to be the wealthiest segment of the population when their living expenses are so much lower?

Wealthiest segment of the population?!

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

How is social security supposed to pay for itself?

Well, it wasn't supposed to be raided to fund the regular budget.

and is it better for the elderly to be the wealthiest segment of the population when their living expenses are so much lower?

Wealthiest segment of the population?!

If it wasn't supposed to be 'raided' to fund the regular budget then why was the revenue unceremoniously dumped into the general revenue stream? In any event the lock box approach does not address the income shortcomings of the pay as you go system social security


the 61-65 age group is the wealthiest

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You regard ponzi schemes as somehow being a good thing?

Pay as you go is surely shortsighted but it seems the Social Security Administration has a
rebuttal to accusations that it is a Ponzi scheme.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Geronimo
the 61-65 age group is the wealthiest

I did not know that. That's pretty disturbing

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Pay as you go is surely shortsighted but it seems the Social Security Administration has a
rebuttal to accusations that it is a Ponzi scheme.

Not a very good one given the inevitable result of Boomers having less children and the increase in benefits that has occured over the course of the program. I fail to see how Pay as you go can be regarded as anything other than a Ponzi Scheme.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Geronimo
If it wasn't supposed to be 'raided' to fund the regular budget then why was the revenue unceremoniously dumped into the general revenue stream? In any event the lock box approach does not address the income shortcomings of the pay as you go system social security

Because politicians are greedy ****s?

the 61-65 age group is the wealthiest

Duh... but how does this support the assertion that the elderly are the "wealthiest segment of the population"? 65 is normal retirement age in this country. That's also when SS kicks in. Of course the last few years of working people will earn the most (seniority). But they ain't elderly yet.

In fact, from the link, the over 65 crowd has substantially less wealth. The 50-55 and 55-60 have far more. Of course the income and earnings for the over 65 group are less than any other group except the under 25.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You regard ponzi schemes as somehow being a good thing?

Socail Security ain't no Ponzi scheme.

A Ponzi scheme is one which pays a return on investment so high that the only way to pay old investors is to divert the monies being invested by new investors. Thus, it requires and ever-increasing number of investors to survive (i.e. a pyramid), and because the number of investors is not infinite, it is foredoomed to fail.

The Social Security system, like any pension system, works like a conveyor belt. Money paid in by new members is combined with interest and paid out to retirees. There is no pyramid.

Social security is hitting a "bump" right now because of the bulge in demographics paid by the post-WWII Baby Boomers. That is, for a few decades, money going out will surpass moneys coming in. This probably will deplete the reserves. If so, the worse case scenario: Some people from my geneation will have a reduction in benefits (maybe down to 80%) before the demographics go back to normal, and payments return to normal.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Socail Security ain't no Ponzi scheme.

A Ponzi scheme is one which pays a return on investment so high that the only way to pay old investors is to divert the monies being invested by new investors. Thus, it requires and ever-increasing number of investors to survive (i.e. a pyramid), and because the number of investors is not infinite,....

I thought you were trying to convince me that my position wasn't correct rather than trying to support it.

[Krill]

Originally posted by Zkribbler Wall Street reform -- ended the boom-bust cycles...at least until the Reagan-Bush rollback of these safeguards, which lead to the banking crunch, the S&L scandals, massive airline bankruptcies, the Enron et al corporate scandals, the dot.com bust, the mortgage bust, the credit crisis, etc.

The dot.com bust started before bush came to power iirc...

nice troll though.