5 myths of anti-immigration talk

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by dannubis

1. As I do not live in your country, I can not comment on your particular situation. However, looking at the situation in my country I can say those "over run" comments are very often exagerated to a large degree (I am not saying there aren't any problems, but our culture is not in danger of being overrun).

But I did not. I said in many, though not all.

2. I don't think illegal immigrants get acces to a lot of social programs. Besides the additional profit your companies make by employing these people will generate more then enough taxes to cover these losses.

They sure do. Do you know how much school taxes cost in some parts of the united states? Local municipalities tax extra to pay for local schools, in some areas the taxes are quite a lot. I do not know of any school which demands proof of citizenship. The school system I went to as a child has been having serious problems for the last 8 years because it does not have enough seats for all the students, most of the growth is from illegal immigrants.

3. That is indeed a problem. On the other hand, if these guys were legal they still would work for less than the average John Doe. (the difference would be smaller I agree, but I just don't see how keeping starting a man hunt on illegal aliens out is going to improve the situation).

Less then the average joe is not less then the minimum wage. Also, they may unionize if they were no longer illegal.

My solution is first, severly fine those who hire illegal immigrants, on the second offense, imprison them.

Get the fence built at the same time. We will go from there.

[Patroklos]

The thing I like about Oerdin is that he routinely ignores the fact that most of us on Poly that support things like a fence and no amnesty also support greatly reducing the barriers to legal immigration and an increase in numbers of legal immigrants allowed.

It is a sad selective comprehension thing he has going on.

[C0ckney]

Re: Re: 5 myths of anti-immigration talk

Originally posted by Vesayen


I thought the only way to solve the problem was to make a strong declarative statement with no proof, after setting up and burning 5 straw men?

Boy was I suprised!

vesayen in intelligent (and amusing) post shocker!

[MikeH]

I presume the people advocating a fence just want to make sure that the mexicans coming over the border are physically fit enough, or resourceful enough to get over/under it? Make sure you only get the best quality illegals.

[Wezil]

#2 is BS (as has been pointed out already). People don't generally complain about things that aren't a problem.

[Igloodude]

"Undocumented immigrant". Interesting euphemism, which smacks Mr Oppenheimer in the face when he uses it thusly: "And, by the way, nearly half of all undocumented immigrants enter the country legally, and overstay their visas."

If they had a visa, they're not 'undocumented', they're simply in possession of expired 'documentation'. And yet, they're illegal just the same as the ones who snuck across the border. Why the pains to avoid that term, Mr. Oppenheimer?

[C0ckney]

it's just good ol' doublespeak...

[DirtyMartini]

Originally posted by snoopy369

I'm pro-immigration, but 1-3 are totally moronic... there are arguments that could be made, but whomever wrote this article is not so smart.

ANDRES OPPENHEIMER is the Latin American editor and foreign affairs columnist with The Miami Herald. His syndicated column, The Oppenheimer Report, appears twice a week in The Miami Herald and more than 40 U.S. and Latin American newspapers, including La Nacion of Argentina and Reforma of Mexico. He is a regular political analyst with CNN en Español, and a frequent guest at PBS' Jim Lehrer News Hour.

His previous jobs at The Miami Herald included Mexico City bureau chief, foreign correspondent, and business writer. He previously worked for five years with The Associated Press in New York, and has contributed on a free-lance basis to The New York Times, The Washington Post, The New Republic, CBS News, and the BBC.

He is the co-winner of the 1987 Pulitzer Prize as a member of The Miami Herald team that uncovered the Iran-Contra scandal. He won the Inter-American Press Association Award twice (1989 and 1994); the 1997 award of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists; the 1993 Ortega y Gasset Award of Spain's daily El País; the 1998 Maria Moors Cabot Award of Columbia University; the 2001 King of Spain Award, given out by the Spanish news agency EFE and King Juan Carlos I of Spain; and an Overseas Press Club Award in 2002. The Ortega y Gasset and the King of Spain awards are the two most prestigious journalism awards in the Spanish-speaking world.

Born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, he studied law for four years at the University of Buenos Aires' Law School, and moved to the United States in 1976 with a fellowship from the World Press Institute. Afer a year at Macalester College in St. Paul, Minnesota, he obtained a Master's degree in Journalism from Columbia University in New York in 1978.

...

Oppenheimer was selected by the Forbes Media Guide as one of the “500 most important journalists” of the United States in 1993, and by Poder magazine as one of the “100 most powerful people” in Latin America in 2002.

Agenda? Absolutely. Smart? Probably.

I'm not trying to bag on you snoopy -- Your other post is spot on in my opionion. It's just that I was also wondering who this dude was.

[VetLegion]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by snoopy369 [/there are arguments that could be made, but whomever wrote this article is not so smart.

QFT.

[Arrian]

Not a very convincing article, and I'm generally pro-immigration.

#2 in particular pissed me off. Poorly argued. If you're going to call somebody (or a bunch of somebodies) racist, back it the **** up. Examples. Specifics. Not a steaming pile of accusation.

There are a number of other holes in the article, but that one really jumped out at me. Meh.

-Arrian

[VetLegion]

Re: Re: 5 myths of anti-immigration talk

Originally posted by germanos


This (the economic disparity) is the most significant cause for migration. There's no keeping out migrants, unless they get 'breathing space' at home.

It's not an easy problem to solve though

There's no keeping out migrants completely, but if there is political will to do so it is possible to reduce the flow from the torrent to a trickle. From millions per year to thousands per year.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by MikeH
I presume the people advocating a fence just want to make sure that the mexicans coming over the border are physically fit enough, or resourceful enough to get over/under it? Make sure you only get the best quality illegals.

This same argument again. The fact that some people will get through any fence does not invalidate the idea of a fence. Most will not get through.

[C0ckney]

denmark is a good example of what you describe, well reducing the flow to a trickle, not the millions to thousands.

[pchang]

The loss of manufacturing jobs

is not due to a lack of people to work them. It is due to a lack of demand for products that are more expensive, but not appreciably better than products made elsewhere.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by C0ckney
denmark is a good example of what you describe, well reducing the flow to a trickle, not the millions to thousands.

I was going to mention it if he asked for examples
Also - Israel's wall toward Palestine. Suicide bombers are quite motivated to get through, don't you think? Yet the wall seems to have stopped them from infiltrating.