Science buff- Like Barack Obama? Better not like manned spaceflight then

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Speaking of which, I'd love to see how many kids World of Warcraft players have on average. I bet it's a low figure, even when we adjust for age.

What if the aliens don't play wow but are better at entertaining their entire population?

[Heraclitus]

WoW players have kids, but most of them don't reach maturity.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
WoW players have kids, but most of them don't reach maturity.

come to think of it all of the WoW players I know (5 people) have more than one kid but I suppose it's not necessarily a good sample.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Geronimo


What if the aliens don't play wow but are better at entertaining their entire population?

I thought a bout that, I wouldn’t be too hard to make a system of entertainment that could addict the vast majority of the populace, even all of them. If no sooner something like that might be possible for humans by the time we have a true understanding of psychology and the workings of the human brain.


Question would the entertainment network be tended by automated machines?

[Heraclitus]

Eureka! I got it!

The Fermi paradox is simply resolved, by accepting that we ourselves are players in an extremely advanced simulated reality of how a isolated civilization might develop. If this is being done for scientific purposes, as a possible study on the elements of civilisational mechanics we may be merely constructs. But if this is being done for entertainment, we might just be players with temporarily suppressed memories, so we can immerse better (like some realy far out OCC, spiced with role-playing to the 9th degree).

See? Perfect sense.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Eureka! I got it!

The Fermi paradox is simply resolved, by accepting that we ourselves are players in an extremely advanced simulated reality of how a isolated civilization might develop. If this is being done for scientific purposes, as a possible study on the elements of civilisational mechanics we may be merely constructs. But if this is being done for entertainment, we might just be players with temporarily suppressed memories, so we can immerse better (like some realy far out OCC, spiced with role-playing to the 9th degree).

Se perfect sense.

A philosophical solution rather than a testable one.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Geronimo


yes it does. you don't seem to understand just how strong a diverging signal has to be to be picked up without an immense receiver over non trivial distances. The added resource cost of a microcomputer and a few nanoscale widgets in the transmitter will be laughably tiny in comparison to the energy saved by reducing divergence of the broadcast.

I'm speaking about intra-solar system communication.
This is what we're using to look for that stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

and what we're doing to send inter-solarsystem stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message

which does more closely follow what you are describing Still, every star in a cluster 145 LY across is going to get that message.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Arrian


I'm going with "vast gaps in space/time" personally. Perhaps there is an advanced civilization in the galaxy, but they're all the way 'round the other side. Perhaps there isn't now, but there was one 2 million years ago. Perhaps there is one now, but we haven't detected their signals yet because said signals won't get here for another 2 million years... and so on and so forth.

-Arrian

my logic is that well if it took 4bn years from rocks to us, couple hundred millions from scorpions to us... and we don't really even talk properly to chimps who are mere few million difference, than I see no reason why would some advanced civilization find it mildly interesting to get in contact with us...

as for life being rare... given that here it exists in total darkness near hot volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean with no access to sunlight, and in the ice, constantly below zero in antarctic, I see no reason to think it is that difficult for it to start, chance being what chance is... we are most likely something average.

The only certain point is that there is no life at the same level of development as our own nearby, for that one I'd agree... for the rest I think we highly overestimate our "importance" that if there was millions/billions years more advanced life around us that they would find us that interesting, or that they'd have the desire to either destroy, subjugate, or somehow impress us with their direct presence.

now off I go to read the rest of the thread

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Geronimo


A philosophical solution rather than a testable one.

Not necessarily it is conceivable that the simulation is not perfect and that there are discrepancies, so when our simulated civ reaches a sufficiently advanced level of technology and understanding of natural laws, it will see that some things just don’t make sense. Another problem solved! I’m on a roll.


But seriously it is about as testable as some of the other explanations. Short of exploring the entire galaxy we won’t find any clear answers, since you can devise a counter argument for anything less than that.

PS Well, I am Heraclitus, so what did you expect?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Whoha

which does more closely follow what you are describing Still, every star in a cluster 145 LY across is going to get that message.

How dense is that cluster?

[Heraclitus]

DP

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Whoha


I'm speaking about intra-solar system communication.
This is what we're using to look for that stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

and what we're doing to send inter-solarsystem stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message

which does more closely follow what you are describing Still, every star in a cluster 145 LY across is going to get that message.

but looking on a cosmic scale of few billion years development, this sort of methods will perhaps be used 2-3 centuries, and than something better as it usually happens with progress... and those few centuries are not even a blip. The only point to conclude out of it is that there is no civilization few hundred light years around us at a similar stage of development (ie within those 2-3 centuries of intense use of radio signals)... for the rest, I am going with what seems logical to me (as does everyone else )

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Whoha


I'm speaking about intra-solar system communication.
This is what we're using to look for that stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory

and what we're doing to send inter-solarsystem stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message

which does more closely follow what you are describing Still, every star in a cluster 145 LY across is going to get that message.

You are I assume familiar with the Deep Space Network? Even communicating with a space probe on Mars requires at least one big arse dish. reducing divergence reduces the size of the dish. It's that simple.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave


my logic is that well if it took 4bn years from rocks to us, couple hundred millions from scorpions to us... and we don't really even talk properly to chimps who are mere few million difference, than I see no reason why would some advanced civilization find it mildly interesting to get in contact with us...

as for life being rare... given that here it exists in total darkness near hot volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean with no access to sunlight, and in the ice, constantly below zero in antarctic, I see no reason to think it is that difficult for it to start, chance being what chance is... we are most likely something average.

The only certain point is that there is no life at the same level of development as our own nearby, for that one I'd agree... for the rest I think we highly overestimate our "importance" that if there was millions/billions years more advanced life around us that they would find us that interesting, or that they'd have the desire to either destroy, subjugate, or somehow impress us with their direct presence.

now off I go to read the rest of the thread

But they might still be interested in dismantling our solar system for raw materials.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
The only point to conclude out of it is that there is no civilization few hundred light years around us at a similar stage of development (ie within those 2-3 centuries of intense use of radio signals)... for the rest, I am going with what seems logical to me (as does everyone else )

Barring the development of faster then light transmission,radio won't be going away.

Originally posted by Geronimo
You are I assume familiar with the Deep Space Network? Even communicating with a space probe on Mars requires at least one big arse dish. reducing divergence reduces the size of the dish. It's that simple.

Great, if you know where the target will be.