A question of faith

[Blake]

Btw the reason that the dude is clearly delusional.

If this is a compassionate god, a loving god, a powerful god, then the god would simply do what is needed to save the "Someone". The god, would not ask another human, to kill that someone (surely a sin) and to take the fall for the god (irresponsible).

This means the god, does not have those qualities, it is not a compassionate god, a loving god, a kind god, a powerful god. It is a manipulative god, a scheming god, a weak god.

In short, even if your friend has not become bat**** insane, the voice in his head is not a good one to be listening to, he has no good reason to trust it.

[DaShi]

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I think it relates to materialism, apathy, and the like.

JM

Among other things. It probably varies greatly from country to country, and in America at least it's quite complex and multi-pronged. See "The Screwtape Letters" for details, but bear in mind that the strategy has been updated a good deal since.

[Xorbon]

One word: "schizophrenia".

Clearly, this hypothetical guy needs help. I like Blake's answer too.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
God has already spoken on the subject: Thou shalt not kill.
I therefore would suspect the Voice belongs to an imposter.

Not true: God's commandment is against Murder, not "killing", specially since so many of his laws have a penalty of death, and he in the past ordered genocides.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
No problem,
I would tell him that god spoke to me and gave me the mission to stop him from doing it, because the voice he heard in his head wasn´t gods voice (or that from his messenger) but that of Satanas (or a demon)

I assume then you did not believe the man?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Elok
Dubious. That sort of thing is sooooo Old Testament, not done anymore. That's either Satan talking or a psychotic episode. Probably the latter. Satan's current strategy appears to be more subtle.

EDIT: Also, when in doubt, consult a priest; it's their job to be helpful on this sort of thing. And "to save the world" sounds awfully grandiose for one man to accomplish. The most the Judges and such ever saved was Israel, and that was by whacking kings and generals.

I should add that it's Orthodox policy (insofar as such a decentralized church can have a policy) to regard all perceived visitations with suspicion. The first test of their genuineness is to examine the effect the visitation has had on yourself. If you're feeling proud, odds are very good it's a devil. If you're terrified and bewildered, it might be genuine. Really, though, you should give more specifics. Does the angel/voice mention WHY this person must die? E.G., "for he is oppressing my people?" Which person?

1. IN terms of what the person is feeling, would it really make a difference to you? Also, why shouldn't a man be proud to be God's tool on Earth? I don't get why the Orthodox Church would demand humility from those chosen by God (seems a pretty special honor).

2. Does the person or reason matter if you believe? Must God's reason for something be known in order to follow his command? Isn't the point of God that he is infalible and can by definition never be wrong?

[Elok]

Originally posted by GePap
1. IN terms of what the person is feeling, would it really make a difference to you? Also, why shouldn't a man be proud to be God's tool on Earth? I don't get why the Orthodox Church would demand humility from those chosen by God (seems a pretty special honor).

Pride distances us from God. Our proper state is one of awareness of our own gifts and weaknesses combined with something like indifference to them. Being proud or ashamed doesn't make the slightest difference to who you are, and both are impediments to getting things done. A proud man doesn't listen. Also, while it's an honor of sorts, that doesn't necessarily make the person special. The twelve disciples were ordinary men transformed by their extraordinary calling. The credit goes to the divine power working through them, and to their willingness to accept it. Even the virgin Mary, while acknowledged as a marvelously righteous woman, is honored most by us for her submission to God's will.

The feeling you get is a good sign of its source. "You shall know a tree by its fruits," and all that. In our tradition, those who genuinely encounter the heavenly powers tend to be made distinctly uncomfortable, like they're staring into the sun. It's frightening to encounter something so much greater than yourself. If you feel proud, you're either a twit or you're being used. Or both.

2. Does the person or reason matter if you believe? Must God's reason for something be known in order to follow his command? Isn't the point of God that he is infalible and can by definition never be wrong?

God is infallible, yes. People aren't, and the devil is supposed to be quite good at deception. We don't know how Abraham knew it was God and not Satan telling him to sacrifice Isaac, and there are stories of demons appearing to men and women under the guise of angels. Generally, however, those stories are of visitations to monks to try and tempt them to feel all self-satisfied. I imagine that it would be more likely in this day and age for the devil to keep a person from thinking about spiritual things altogether when inciting him or her to murder. Idunno for sure, though.

[Vesayen]

Re: A question of faith

Response from a Jew.

Originally posted by GePap
Would you believe this statement to be true? Why or why not?

No. If he was not Jewish, it is a no brainer, if he is Jewish, it is still, a no brainer. Why? Because the divine has not ordered anyone to do anything like this for about 2,200 years, as far as we know. However he has given us tons of warnings to watch out for people claiming to be speaking on his behalf.

If you believed it to be true, would you help him/her carry out their mission? Why or why not?

I cannot concieve any situation or circumstance where I would believe them, short of seeing a miracle myself. I would never believe them, so no.

If you believed it to be false, would you act to stop them? Why or why not?

I would try to get them psychological help to help my friend because they are clearly either very disturbed, schitzophrenic, going insane, or decieved somehow.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by GePap

I assume then you did not believe the man?

Not really.
The God of the bible is capable to do killings of his own without problems, including mass murder, as the old testament shows.

And, no matter if within the bible or outside, I cannot remember reading any story ever about god talking to people in order to employ them as hitmen.