USA without planet Earth

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
You think the Christian fundies who emigrate will be particularly interested in "democracy"?

Counselor Shlafly rose to speak in the emergency meeting of the Council of Virtue of the Christian Republic of Pampas.

"How dare President Obama claim we're not a democracy? We have regular elections for the parliament, and theyre certifiably fair. The fact that the Council of Virtue certifies and approves candidates doesnt makes us not a democracy - the US didnt let Communists run in the 1950s. And many of President Obama's supporters considered Iran a democracy, with a system similar to our own. This is all hypocrisy, nothing but a conspiracy to maintain global hegemony and enslave us"

[Kuciwalker]

Plus, everyone knows you have to take Miriam out early.

[lord of the mark]

Kuci - could you cannibalize all the chips in game consoles, and other low priority consumer applications, for other purposes?

[Kuciwalker]

To some extent, but I don't think you'd really need to - it would probably be more expensive (in terms of highly skilled labor) than it would be worth, and as I said the US still has a good about of chip fab. Plus, it'd be easier to just stop making those low priority consumer goods, and you'd be able to get by with the production we have.

[Arrian]

It would be a shock, certainly. But I really think we'd do rather well in this scenario.

Opportunistic types would definitely try to go and claim areas with key resources. Whether the US government would allow that is an interesting question.

Do you allow anyone to go off, stick a flag in and claim the area formerly known as Iraq to be "Bobistan" and demand royalties on the oil?

Do you allow a major corporation to do the same? Hmm, that seems more likely to happen. The corp. is at least somewhat regulated by the government, and probably has political connections it can call upon. The money made by the corp is at least somewhat distributed to its employees and shareholders, not just straight into Bob's pocket. Still, there are reasons to disallow that.

If neither of the above is acceptable, then it's government-run colony time. Which would probably be roughly equivalent to the corporate option anyway, really.

I'd expect slash & burn environmental policies, at least outside of current US territory. "This is no time for tree hugging, son!"

There would probably be an upswing in religious fervor. Heck, if this happened I'd have to concede that there is a supernatural power at work. Those who are zealots already... yikes, who the hell knows what they would do.

At about 12:01 am on the first day, plans will being for the re-establishment of Israel. At 12:02, Palestinian-American groups will object and counter with their own plans.

Hmm, there's a thought. Would various hyphenated American groups start claiming the "right" to re-establish their mother countries? If so, would those claims go anywhere? Do I get to claim a piece of Devonshire?

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

It would be a shock, certainly. But I really think we'd do rather well in this scenario.

Agreed, especially since we'd suddenly have to worry a lot less about environmental policy. CO2 emissions would be slashed. And, once we had the oil infrastructure back up, it would be a lot cheaper.

[Kuciwalker]

Also, think of the diseases that would disappear, which have been mostly eradicated in the US (or never really spread here) but are big problems in the developing world.

[Heraclitus]

An interesting question could Mexico get re-established?

LotM is quite right on all the groups trying to leave for
nutty or practical reasons.


Black supremacists might try to found their communities in Africa, several large minorities returning to reform their countries. Like maybe the Expat Cubans founding a non-communist Cuba. Neo-Nazi nuts going to some nordic place and trying to keep their “race” pure. Muslims resettling Mecca. Expat- Brits founding a new United Kingdom. Some of these groups would be just little wacky unimportant communities, while some might even reach a population of hundreds of thousands or even millions. An interesting question, would they be granted independence?


I can even imagine a group of Jews trying to resettle the "promised land". Come to think of that would the Jews, Christians and Muslims consider the points where Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem are, sacred? There might be several views, with a wide range of possibilities.



The little war now, no war later mentality is flawed, since sooner or later there will be another war. Because eventually American colonies will become culturally distinct or unhappy with the high taxes on tea or something else and even if this was not the case, there would be ideological or historical divides.

Heck, even Texas could just one day hold a referendum and try to leave. Since the US federal government becomes the de facto global government, will that actually make it less important and less liked? Does it trigger a power drunken change in mentality, with government crackdowns and ever more repressive measures to keep people in?

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

It would be a shock, certainly. But I really think we'd do rather well in this scenario.

Agreed, especially since we'd suddenly have to worry a lot less about environmental policy. CO2 emissions would be slashed. And, once we had the oil infrastructure back up, it would be a lot cheaper.

Would it?

Edit: yeah, probably. Me dumb at first. Me forget about massive drop in demand for global commodity.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

The little war now, no war later mentality is flawed, since sooner or later there will be another war. Because eventually American colonies will become culturally distinct or unhappy with the high taxes on tea or something else and even if this was not the case, there would be ideological or historical divides.

The American Revolution couldn't have occured in the modern world. Professional militaries have gotten too much better than militias, and intercontinental logistics have gotten a lot easier.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Arrian


Would it?

Edit: yeah, probably. Me dumb at first. Me forget about massive drop in demand for global commodity.

-Arrian

And the vast quantities of it "discovered" all over the world.

[Arrian]

There would have to be fundamental changes in the US government, if it is to govern the world, though, don't you think?

Congress would either get totally unwieldy, with thousands upon thousands of representatives, or each rep would "represent" a ridiculous number of people (eventually). Neither strikes me as good. How does one deal with that?

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Merge states to keep the Senate small. Move the House to prop rep. Problem solved.

Actually, we ought to do that right now anyway.

Until there was some sort of political reform, we'd probably just make the ROW a federal territory.

What happens to current US territories, like Puerto Rico or American Samoa?

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Heraclitus

An interesting question could Mexico get re-established?

"Back when I had a little farm in this pueblo in Chiapas, and coming to America meant working for nothing wages and being glared at by gringos, and worrying about the INS, I came here anyway. Now Chiapas is jungle, and wages here are high, and they want me to stay. Why would I want to go back, you think Im loco?"


LotM is quite right on all the groups trying to leave for
nutty or practical reasons.

An interesting question, would they be granted independence?

Only if they promise to serve the interests of the USA. In which case its independence in name only.


[q]I can even imagine a group of Jews trying to resettle the "promised land".[q/]

The economics of that will be tough.

The little war now, no war later mentality is flawed, since sooner or later there will be another war. Because eventually American colonies will become culturally distinct

We got the internet and all, they'll never become that distant culturally.

Heck, even Texas could just one day hold a referendum and try to leave. Since the US federal government becomes the de facto global government, will that actually make it less important and less liked?

Dislike for the center by Americans, will look a lot different than dislike by furriners for America.

Does it trigger a power drunken change in mentality, with government crackdowns and ever more repressive measures to keep people in?

Im thinking the immediate problems will be challenging enough to avoid "power drunkeness" If theres no one to have power over, what is power, anyway?

The measures to keep people in arent arbitrary, they are a real response to labor shortage. As automation and renewed population growth lead back toward equilibrium, this will lessen the tendency toward repression.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

The little war now, no war later mentality is flawed, since sooner or later there will be another war. Because eventually American colonies will become culturally distinct or unhappy with the high taxes on tea or something else and even if this was not the case, there would be ideological or historical divides.

The American Revolution couldn't have occured in the modern world. Professional militaries have gotten too much better than militias, and intercontinental logistics have gotten a lot easier.

Actually that isn't the reason why. The reason why is, that the world isn't in a state of constant war amongst first-class powers.

Anyway an independence war could happen, but it would be more like a civil war, it could only occur once the colony was about as developed as the “homeland”.