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Tony Blair converts to catholicism

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  • #46
    Wasn't Tony Blair the man who was putting undercover policemen in restaurants to stop people from hate speech?

    Interesting, a group of African archbishops come to England and start getting all hateful about gays, yet the government, whcih was sending police into restaurants to stop the same sort of thing refuses to lift a finger. Was there perhaps a reason for this selective enforcement of the law?
    "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Winston
      But.. but.. it's the best I can do.

      Imran Siddiqui is right. I'm surprised that it didn't catch on to everybody's radar.

      Complaining about a certain practice being undemocratic kind of requires that there be at least some level of popular opposition to it.

      And claiming that a majority agreeing on upholding a practice (or, as in this case, not agreeing on abandoning it) would fall short of being democratic, indicates a rather um, alternative understanding of what makes a democracy. Kind of like the one the Soviet rulers had, back in their pre-ash heap days.

      I just said it was not enough. Other than being supported by the majority, a democratic practice also implies respect of the rights of the minority as well as holding up to certain norms adopted in a civilized society. Separation between the church and the state is clearly among those norms.

      And please, there is really no need to refer to the Soviet Union, which was not democratic, or the present-day Russia, which is just semi-democratic. It is an outstanding exemplar of western democracy -- Great Britain -- that we are discussing here, not the USSR/Russia.
      Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
        Is the 1829 Emancipation Act still in force?
        Apparently yes. It has not been explicitly abolished, and no precedent exists otherwise.

        When is the EU getting a President? I thought the EU Constitution got shot down?
        IIRC they agreed on a "shorter version" at the recent summit in Portugal. It will still have to pass through national legislatures though. But no referenda will be held, except for Ireland. I guess they are supposed to get a President as early as 2009.
        Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
          Wasn't Tony Blair the man who was putting undercover policemen in restaurants to stop people from hate speech?
          Really?

          Do you have anything to back that up?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
            It is rather ironic that despite the constitutional arrangements Britain is comparatively secular in practice, and yet in the United States with clearly defined separation of powers politicians can't go three sentences without having to say "God bless America".
            It is ironic that Britain manages to be a liberal democracy in spite of its semi-feudal institutions. This shows that traditions and political culture are actually more important than just the institutions.
            Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

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            • #51
              I just said it was not enough. Other than being supported by the majority, a democratic practice also implies respect of the rights of the minority as well as holding up to certain norms adopted in a civilized society. Separation between the church and the state is clearly among those norms.

              And please, there is really no need to refer to the Soviet Union, which was not democratic, or the present-day Russia, which is just semi-democratic. It is an outstanding exemplar of western democracy -- Great Britain -- that we are discussing here, not the USSR/Russia.


              Norms, norms.

              The separation of church and state is not among the norms adopted by the civilized society I'm in. In fact, the constitution of my country says that they're integral. That's about as normative as you can get.

              What you're putting forward here as 'clearly being the norm of civilized society' is nothing but an opinion. Other people have opinions that run contrary to yours. Unless you're able to convince a majority to buy onto your opinion, it remains just that, not the norm.

              Democracy is not about what you would like to see, that's personal preference.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Winston
                Norms, norms.

                The separation of church and state is not among the norms adopted by the civilized society I'm in. In fact, the constitution of my country says that they're integral. That's about as normative as you can get.
                Now I see why you defend it so fiercely.

                So your country is not officially secular, and you see no wrong about it.

                Your country is the same as Iran then, only just a much more liberal version of it.
                Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
                  It is rather ironic that despite the constitutional arrangements Britain is comparatively secular in practice, and yet in the United States with clearly defined separation of powers politicians can't go three sentences without having to say "God bless America".
                  QFT
                  "lol internet" ~ AAHZ

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cort Haus


                    Really?

                    Do you have anything to back that up?
                    That was years ago, back before Iraq. I don't think I could dredge up news articles that far back, but I recall a rather brisk discussion about the proposal on this website.
                    "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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