Ribbons and military insignia

[Sirotnikov]

So.... I'll be getting a war ribbon for participating in the effort of the 2nd Lebanon war in 2006.

Here's the charmer:


Israel has very little ribbons compared to other countries.

It has a ribbon for every war and several for pre-state military groups (obviously, very little of them hanging around), and only 6 possible distinguishing ribbons.

The courses achievements and so on are all represented with different size pins. most of them somehow trying to include wings, even if they have nothing to do with airforce or paratroopers.


So I'll be a tiny bit more decorated than I already am.



It feels really odd though, because even though I did my share in my role, it seems odd that someone who wasn't actually fighting in the field would get it. The army decided that everyone who was in sevice in that period should get the ribbon. I'm not sure it's right.

Still I deserve it more than many lazy bums.

[Zkribbler]

Were you actually in Lebanon? Maybe at a supply depot or something. Then IMHO, it'd be okay to get the ribbon.

But if you were merely in the armed forces at the time but not in the war zone, it seems weird to be giving you a war ribbon.

A buddy of mine was in the Canadian Army during WW II, but he refuses any thanks from me for his service to the Allies because he never made it out of Canada.

[SlowwHand]

Congrats.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Israel has very little ribbons compared to other countries.

It has a ribbon for every war

This seems contradictory, Israel has racked up a lot of victorious wars in its short history, and this system would ensure a never ending supply of new ribbons eventually exceeding every other country on earth.

[Apocalypse]

I got this ribbon for marching in a gay pride parade.


Or playing for the Hawaii football team, who I think has a rainbow for a mascot.

Either explanation works.

[Patroklos]

The US military has a lot of ribbons, and I will tell you we have 1.) too many and 2.) we hand some of them out far to readily.



This is the National Defense Service Medal, which is awarded to anyone serving in the military during a time of war or a national crisis when the president authorizes it. If you happen to be in the service when it was authorized, deauthorized, and then authorized again you can "earn" two, which is shown by wearing a small bronze star in the center. For this reason a lot of people who were in during the first Iraq war have two, since it was reauthorized by Clinton in the late nineties and is still authorized to this day.

Now really this is a free ribbon with medal (not all ribbons have medals). I usually don't like that but in this case I let it slide because serving in a crisis/war does mean something. Ribbon's like the Air Force Service ribbon that you get just for joining are stupid.

The problem I have with the National Defense Service Medal is these two:



The first is the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, which is awarded to service members participating in operations directly involved with fighting terrorism, but are not large enough to be covered under a specific campaign medal like the Iraq or Afghanistan Campaign Medals. All well and good, as it is awarded for action in a specific operation vice just overall service like the National Defense Service Medal covers. No duplication.

The second one, the Global War On Terrorism Service Medal I do have a problem with. This is awarded to any person supporting the war on terror. With very few exceptions, that is everyone. So basically it is a duplicate of the NDSM. They should have either deauthorized the NSDM and replaced it with the GWOT Service Medal, or just used the NDSM only.

Then there is the Expeditionary Service Medal;



This is awarded for participating in a significant operation not covered under a specific campaign medal, and not involved in fighting terrorism.

So, given how mobile a ship is, constantly moving in and out of operational areas over six months, it is possible for a boot seaman straight out of Great Lakes to get every ribbon I mentioned on one six month deployment.

They would also get this:



The Sea Service Medal, which is awarded for serving three or more continuous months at sea (which usually means one for each deployment), with bronze stars added for each additional award.

[Igloodude]

I was fond of the first one (the NDSM), since it made academy midshipmen look a lot less like Good Humor men than they otherwise would have in summer whites uniform. But in general, yeah, the "you got this one for signing your name, and this one for wearing a uniform while so-and-so happened" are pointless and detract from the ones that do mean something.

[Sirotnikov]

Ah.
We get pins for most stuff like that, instead of ribbons.

We only get ribbons for major wars. It took the parliament several months to decide whether the conflict in Lebanon in August 200 was indeed a major war.


Everyone who served in the IDF at the time of the war will be receiving this ribbon.

I guess that no one wanted to take the hard decision of when a supporting force becomes not important enough, and wanted to signify that e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e contributed to the war effort.

I never left the Israeli pentagon during the war - even slept there. I did work my ass off and was involved in the war effort. Unlike, say, the cook at our base. But I think that if they had decided that only combat roles get this ribbon, it might have been better.

[Patroklos]

I guess that no one wanted to take the hard decision of when a supporting force becomes not important enough,

Tactics are for amateurs, logistics are for professionals

[SlowwHand]

But you would have been up ****creek without that cook. Support is support.

[Igloodude]

Sure, but did the fellow working at a base back in the home country do his job any differently because his co-workers were on the other side of the planet getting shot at?

Don't get me wrong, the REMFs are just as important to military operations as the trigger-pullers, but I think awards should be given for enduring hardship or performing above and beyond the call of duty (individually, at a unit level, and at an region/command level). Engaging in combat operations/getting shot at generally qualifies as enduring hardship, at the least.

[Patroklos]

Engaging in combat operations/getting shot at generally qualifies as enduring hardship, at the least.

Unless they do something exceptional doing their job, which is getting shot at, I see no reason why they should get awards for doing what they are supposed to do. Your reward for doing that is your pay check. Awards are for going above and beyond your duty, doing your job competently does not qualify.

That is also why I hate end of tours. You did a good job on your tour? Well guess what, you are supposed to do that!

[Igloodude]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Unless they do something exceptional doing their job, which is getting shot at, I see no reason why they should get awards for doing what they are supposed to do. Your reward for doing that is your pay check. Awards are for going above and beyond your duty, doing your job competently does not qualify.

That is also why I hate end of tours. You did a good job on your tour? Well guess what, you are supposed to do that!

But the default is peacetime, not wartime (Bush jokes aside). If they were to interpret "doing what you're supposed to do" at the level you suggest, Marines would never get any awards at all.

Agreed on the end of tours, though. I stopped complaining about them when our squadron commander awarded our selfcentered CO (the worst I'd ever dealt with, and most other people shared that opinion) a letter of commendation as an end of tour award. Look in the dictionary for "damned with faint praise", you'll find the CO's picture there.

[Patroklos]

But the default is peacetime, not wartime (Bush jokes aside).

Exactly, so if you want to give a blanket service award during wartime it should go to everyone. But I see I misread what this Isreali award is. It is a campaign award, not a service award, so yes only people who served physically (in theatre, as small as those might be for Isreal) in the campaign should get it. Like our Iraq/Afghanistan campaign medals.

If they were to interpret "doing what you're supposed to do" at the level you suggest, Marines would never get any awards at all.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Tactics are for amateurs, logistics are for professionals

this is probably the most important rule of war.


however, logistics people, are usually less in danger, and do not sacrifice their lives as often.