Do you believe global warming is man made & do you think it's catastrophic?

[Dinner]

It's certainly man made though honestly I don't believe we can stop it unless we stop deforestation and tariff the hell out of goods coming from countries which don't sign on to cut emissions (and actually follow through).

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Will
... A combination of the beginning of a warm period and pollution is causing a worse than shift. How much of it is man-made and how much is natural? We can't know. Should we do something? Yes!!! ...

QFT. 99% if the debate of whether climate change is natural or man made is a red herring. No matter what the source, the melting of our ice caps, etc. is a bad thing and needs to addressed.

The 1% relevance the question has is this: If climate change is man made, then we should be able to reverse our course and fix it. If it is natural, then it might be too big a phenomenon to fix.

[VetLegion]

This is one of the rare topics I can't make up my mind about. Simply too much confusing data. I would need to invest a lot of time to make sense of it, and I'm not willing to.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Will
What I believe,

Global Warming is happening. Is it completly man-made? No. There are short (by I short I mean not Ice Age long, but from 100-500 years) in earth's past where the world has been warmer, colder, or in-between (the longest being the cold periodss and the shortest being the in-between periods). A combination of the beginning of a warm period and pollution is causing a worse than shift. How much of it is man-made and how much is natural? We can't know. Should we do something? Yes!!! Even if global is completly natural I think we should do something just to get rid of the smell.

I think Poly causes greenhouse emissions by burning teh random words it decides to remove from Will9's posts

[Will9]

Originally posted by LordShiva


I think Poly causes greenhouse emissions by burning teh random words it decides to remove from Will9's posts

There is extra word to make up for it.

[Impaler[WrG]]

The 1% relevance the question has is this: If climate change is man made, then we should be able to reverse our course and fix it. If it is natural, then it might be too big a phenomenon to fix.

You totally underestimate the power of man to alter the natural world. Our civilization if focused on the task with the with say 20% of global GDP we could control the long term climate even against the natural cycles. Our present activities (massive CO2 release) would be sufficient to end an ice-age if we were in one and we will likely need to do the reverse to get ourselves out of the present situation.

Failure to grasp how powerful our civilization is contributes to all kinds of ignorance on the part of laymen, they simply refuse to see nature as alterable by their actions. In the past a collapsed fishery or a desertification of agricultural land was explained away as the punishment of the gods, now "natural cycles" are the choice vehicle for the removal of responsibility from the shoulders of society.

[Cort Haus]

I'm worried about global dimming.

[Aeson]

Partially. Could be.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Geronimo


It might be more expensive to deal with now depending on technological developments. For instance if fusion power became practical in the future dealing with the warming would be much less expensive then than now.

waiting for a tech miracle (like fusion) is a long shot on a present problem... if fusion happens along the way - no problem... when oil becomes more scarce, other resources like nuclear/wind/solar etc will become more acceptable/viable anyhow.

The trick is not to wait until than, as the cost of cleanup/temp reduction will be a lot greater than as well, as reviving deserts, and changing landscapes in an unsuitable environment is very expensive indeed. Not to mention the wars/immigrant invasion etc which are to be expected when farming and water supplies disappear for millions of people might still make it cheaper to invest into desalination plants etc... just to avoid other effects of environment change which are inevitable.

But of course our current thinking is, screw the future, let it take care of itself, and only when oil hits 500$ per barrel nuclear/wind/solar/other will take over... but if that is inevitable why not do something about it now? Unless you think that oil will last forever, and that you can pump CO2 into the atmosphere without ill effects forever. The solution in US is to let the industry come up with the solution itself, and even encourage oil/status quo as we go along, as that suits the current power brokers... but really is this the best? I think we can do better.

[Andemagne]

GW is complete utter disgrace in the face of all humanity.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I'm worried about global dimming.

America exporting its culture to the rest of the World – possibly the biggest threat to civilisation on this planet as we know it…

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave


waiting for a tech miracle (like fusion) is a long shot on a present problem... if fusion happens along the way - no problem... when oil becomes more scarce, other resources like nuclear/wind/solar etc will become more acceptable/viable anyhow.

The trick is not to wait until than, as the cost of cleanup/temp reduction will be a lot greater than as well, as reviving deserts, and changing landscapes in an unsuitable environment is very expensive indeed. Not to mention the wars/immigrant invasion etc which are to be expected when farming and water supplies disappear for millions of people might still make it cheaper to invest into desalination plants etc... just to avoid other effects of environment change which are inevitable.

But of course our current thinking is, screw the future, let it take care of itself, and only when oil hits 500$ per barrel nuclear/wind/solar/other will take over... but if that is inevitable why not do something about it now? Unless you think that oil will last forever, and that you can pump CO2 into the atmosphere without ill effects forever. The solution in US is to let the industry come up with the solution itself, and even encourage oil/status quo as we go along, as that suits the current power brokers... but really is this the best? I think we can do better.

I definitely think technical solutions like fusion won't develop themselves and the private sector won't necessarily jump in to provide those solutions without a carrot or stick to get it involved. Likely enormous public spending will be necessary to find technical fixes and the sooner that is begun the less overall investment it is likely to take.

The approaches can be combined however. Huge spending on alternate energy source research could be funded by huge taxes on CO2 output.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Andemagne
GW is complete utter disgrace in the face of all humanity.

nonsense. It was perfectly understandable that this situation arose. Of all of the regrettable things human civilizations have done burning fossil fuels should rank very very low on the disgracefulness scale.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


America exporting its culture to the rest of the World – possibly the biggest threat to civilisation on this planet as we know it…

define civilisation.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It's certainly man made though honestly I don't believe we can stop it unless we stop deforestation and tariff the hell out of goods coming from countries which don't sign on to cut emissions (and actually follow through).

You mean: like the US?
Like actually cutting emissions quantitavely, not relatively?


Actually I don't think mankind can do much against global warming. We might contribute a bit, but it's proposterous to think we have the ability to have a lasting impact on the climate on this third rock from the sun.
Nothing extraordinary is happenening at the moment. Sure, humans might die, possibly get extinct. We won't be the first, and we certainly won't be the last. Sealevels have risen far beyond their current level, in ancient times. Sealevels have fallen way beyond present levels in the past as well.
They will do so again and again.

If anything, we should worry about the pollution we cause with pesticides, fertilizer, toxic fumes, heavy metals, nuclear waste etc., because they will affect our present day life.
Global warming may or may not happen, with or without
us.